Octopus: Action: Your meter is approaching its use-by date

Spoonie_Turtle

onemouseplace said:

I had the same email this morning - we've only lived in the property for 2 months and noone has checked our internal meter, so I have no idea how they know whether or not our meters are nearing their 'expiry' date.  

I strongly suspect they have installation targets they would like to meet.  

The information is held in the same database that knows in which address each meter number is, what type it is, when it was fitted, who supplies the energy to it, etc.  There's one for gas and one for electricity
https://community.bulb.co.uk/t/updating-the-national-database/103359

ariarnia

hi crimson. there have been a few threads on the topic but no problem starting your own  

you can normally refuse an 'offer' to replace your smart meter but unfortunately if your meter is reaching the end of its certified life then your supplier HAS to replace it. its like food with a use by date in the supermarket. that packet might still be fine but supermarkets can't sell it even if they want to. 

and you can ask if they can fit a refurbished traditional meter but normally unless theres a good reason that will be with a smart meter (and unfortunately for you its the government and your supplier who decide what a good reason is) 

there's some more info here that might help https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

and here are some reasons from shell why a smart meter might not be able to be installed (but i think the poor network thing is not so much of a problem now based on something dolor said the other day about differnt options they now have to connect to the network) 

https://help.shellenergy.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360001043398-Are-there-any-situations-where-you-aren-t-able-to-install-a-smart-meter-

[Deleted User]

matt_drummer said:

Deleted_User said:

Thanks very much for replying Mstty.  I am happy and satisfied with the system I have and I really don't want any change.  

I understand that, in time, Smart Meters will be essential but I don't want to change from a system I know and understand.  I'm wary of them and feel unnerved by the number of problems associated with them.  Perhaps, in time, they will be fewer problems associated with them but, for now, I really don't feel comfortable about having to accept them.

There isn't really any change in the system.

They are meters that measure and record your usage, nothing more if that is all you want, you can read the display just like your current meter and submit readings to your supplier just as you do now.

I think you can even ask for them to be installed in `dumb mode?

But it's just like a modern mobile telephone, they do lots of things but if you just want to make and receive calls on them, you can.

I think if your supplier wants to change the meters and only fit smart meters then there really isn't anything to argue about, the meters are not ours and the supplier has the right to install what they deem necessary.

Some people will tell you you don't have to have them if you don't want but I'll leave them to explain how they think you can do this as it's beyond me why anybody wouldn't want a more modern and functional piece of equipment installed at their house at no cost to them.

I understand, thanks matt_drummer.  I still really don't want Smart Meters.   If it cannot be proved that my present electric and gas  meters are faulty, can I be forced to have Smart Electric and Gas meters installed against my wishes?  Would there be any consequences if I really don't want them?

ariarnia

Deleted_User said:

matt_drummer said:

Deleted_User said:

Thanks very much for replying Mstty.  I am happy and satisfied with the system I have and I really don't want any change.  

I understand that, in time, Smart Meters will be essential but I don't want to change from a system I know and understand.  I'm wary of them and feel unnerved by the number of problems associated with them.  Perhaps, in time, they will be fewer problems associated with them but, for now, I really don't feel comfortable about having to accept them.

There isn't really any change in the system.

They are meters that measure and record your usage, nothing more if that is all you want, you can read the display just like your current meter and submit readings to your supplier just as you do now.

I think you can even ask for them to be installed in `dumb mode?

But it's just like a modern mobile telephone, they do lots of things but if you just want to make and receive calls on them, you can.

I think if your supplier wants to change the meters and only fit smart meters then there really isn't anything to argue about, the meters are not ours and the supplier has the right to install what they deem necessary.

Some people will tell you you don't have to have them if you don't want but I'll leave them to explain how they think you can do this as it's beyond me why anybody wouldn't want a more modern and functional piece of equipment installed at their house at no cost to them.

I understand, thanks matt_drummer.  I still really don't want Smart Meters.   If it cannot be proved that my present electric and gas  meters are faulty, can I be forced to have Smart Electric and Gas meters installed against my wishes?  Would there be any consequences if I really don't want them?

its not about if there faulty.

its that they are certified to be accurate for a set number of years (most domestic meters are around 10-25 years) and at the end of that time it needs to be replaced. 

[Deleted User]

ariarnia said:

hi crimson. there have been a few threads on the topic but no problem starting your own  

you can normally refuse an 'offer' to replace your smart meter but unfortunately if your meter is reaching the end of its certified life then your supplier HAS to replace it. 

and you can ask if they can fit a refurbished traditional meter but normally unless theres a good reason that will be with a smart meter (and unfortunately for you its the government and your supplier who decide what a good reason is) 

there's some more info here that might help https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

and here are some reasons from shell why a smart meter might not be able to be installed (but i think the poor network thing is not so much of a problem now based on something dolor said the other day about differnt options they now have to connect to the network) 

https://help.shellenergy.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360001043398-Are-there-any-situations-where-you-aren-t-able-to-install-a-smart-meter-

Thanks for all that information and for taking time to to provide it, ariarnia.  My gas and electric meters are outside.  Can Octopus send someone to install Smart Meters without first demonstrating that they are faulty or out of date and not working properly?  I would be really upset if this happened without my approval and without my knowledge.

Spoonie_Turtle

What stress caused by smart meters exactly do you mean?  I can understand not wanting change just to 'fix what ain't broke' (as the saying sort of goes) but expired certification period counts as 'broken'.

The biggest stress of smart meters were the first generation (SMETS1) that stopped communicating when people switched suppliers.  That's been solved by the second generation (SMETS2), and a lot of the SMETS1 meters have been enrolled to communicate again.

If you're thinking of something else, perhaps the knowledgeable regulars here can help put your mind at rest.  Octopus are a very flexible and accommodating company but I very much doubt they hold any refurbished non-smart meters in stock.  You could always ask, but of course if they do and they allow you to have one fitted, it may not have a long certification period left now and would just be delaying the smart meter necessity by a few years anyway.

ariarnia

Deleted_User said:

ariarnia said:

hi crimson. there have been a few threads on the topic but no problem starting your own  

you can normally refuse an 'offer' to replace your smart meter but unfortunately if your meter is reaching the end of its certified life then your supplier HAS to replace it. 

and you can ask if they can fit a refurbished traditional meter but normally unless theres a good reason that will be with a smart meter (and unfortunately for you its the government and your supplier who decide what a good reason is) 

there's some more info here that might help https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

and here are some reasons from shell why a smart meter might not be able to be installed (but i think the poor network thing is not so much of a problem now based on something dolor said the other day about differnt options they now have to connect to the network) 

https://help.shellenergy.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360001043398-Are-there-any-situations-where-you-aren-t-able-to-install-a-smart-meter-

Thanks for all that information and for taking time to to provide it, ariarnia.  My gas and electric meters are outside.  Can Octopus send someone to install Smart Meters without first demonstrating that they are faulty or out of date and not working properly?  I would be really upset if this happened without my approval and without my knowledge.

it probably wont be without your knowledge but you dont get to approve or not. 

like i said its about the meters being certified for a fixed time. once they are out of certification they have to be removed. then they can be disposed of or refurbished/recertified to be installed somewhere else. 

nothing to do with fault. 

Annemos

It is also such a waste if they can be refurbished, but instead just get disposed of   (the old ones). 

Also, there are supposed to be supply chain problems for smart meters, I believe. 

[Deleted User]

Deleted_User said:

matt_drummer said:

Deleted_User said:

Thanks very much for replying Mstty.  I am happy and satisfied with the system I have and I really don't want any change.  

I understand that, in time, Smart Meters will be essential but I don't want to change from a system I know and understand.  I'm wary of them and feel unnerved by the number of problems associated with them.  Perhaps, in time, they will be fewer problems associated with them but, for now, I really don't feel comfortable about having to accept them.

There isn't really any change in the system.

They are meters that measure and record your usage, nothing more if that is all you want, you can read the display just like your current meter and submit readings to your supplier just as you do now.

I think you can even ask for them to be installed in `dumb mode?

But it's just like a modern mobile telephone, they do lots of things but if you just want to make and receive calls on them, you can.

I think if your supplier wants to change the meters and only fit smart meters then there really isn't anything to argue about, the meters are not ours and the supplier has the right to install what they deem necessary.

Some people will tell you you don't have to have them if you don't want but I'll leave them to explain how they think you can do this as it's beyond me why anybody wouldn't want a more modern and functional piece of equipment installed at their house at no cost to them.

I understand, thanks matt_drummer.  I still really don't want Smart Meters.   If it cannot be proved that my present electric and gas  meters are faulty, can I be forced to have Smart Electric and Gas meters installed against my wishes?  Would there be any consequences if I really don't want them?

The supplier doesn’t have to prove anything to the consumer. It owns the meters. Under The Gas and Electricity Acts suppliers cannot legally bill you when a meter has reached the end of it’s certified life. Details of each meter’s certification period is held on the 2 National databases. 

Many of the newer suppliers hold no stock of analogue meters so their hands are tied. This is why the Government changed the policy in 2019 to allow suppliers to fit smart meters in end-of-life situations WITHOUT the consumer’s permission.  The Government also said that when an analogue meter is available and fitted the supplier can raise a meter change charge against the consumer.

My wife and I are in our 70s. Smart meter tariffs have saved us a lot of money over the last 4 years. Smart meters are just meters that meter your usage.

matt_drummer

To be honest I doubt you would know they had been changed.

Nothing happens, they are just gas and electricity meters, you can go and look at them and take readings from them just like you do with the ones you have now.

They truly are just a way of recording you usage of gas and electricity.

The only difference is that the electricity meter can record usage at different time periods to allow you to take advantage of better, cheaper or just more suitable electricity tariffs.

There's nothing magic about them, it's not like you have to sit there looking at them all day or do anything with them.

They have an in house display but you don't have to use that if you choose not to.

You really won't notice any difference , you still get electricity and gas when you want it just as you do now.


The only thing that could possibly happen is that they could switch you to prepayment if you don't pay your bill, but they can do that now (or soon again I suspect).