Builder demanding money

ThisIsWeird

Doozergirl said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Inform them of this by a recorded means, ideally email or text. She should also have her phone ready to 'record' should they come by her house.

She should be calm and succinct - let them rant if they want to, as it'll ultimately count against them. If they do, just stare at him/them until they finish, and bring it back to the facts.

Worth practising making these points in the form of Qs as much as possible. "Why did you leave the site and end the contract?" Presumably they'll cite the concrete floor, to which the next Q is, "How many times did you survey the job?" "Are you telling me you didn't realise the floor was concrete before you began the work?" "What %-age of garage floors are concrete?" etc etc.

And then, "Are you telling me that I should pay you for a job that you didn't actually do? For a job you didn't realise you couldn't do even after 2 surveys? Didn't reckon the floor was concrete even tho' just about every garage in the UK has a concrete floor?"

Stick with these points, bring any deviation by them back to this. Repeat them until they answer each one as required.

Making these points in the form of Qs forces them to answer. If, instead, you simply state these points, they'll argue, and they'll be masters of that.

Any threats, implied or actual, call up your local police and tell them of your concerns. Don't over-egg, just state what was said, and in what manner, calmly and succinctly.

(On a different note, what were they planning to do to your garage to cure this 'damp' anyway - fit drains inside? Worth your partner starting a new thread on here about this, posting photos, inside and out of the garage.)

Why engage in conversation with them?  Especially asking questions? 

They have no leg to stand on.  The best advice is to ignore them entirely.  Block their numbers and call 101 regarding any harassment if it continues.  

But yes, I totally agree on finding out what the issue is!  Photos, definitely!  Let's try and save this lady some more money - this could have been a lucky escape!  

To clarify, I'm not at all suggesting they invite a conversation, in fact I said 'ideally by email or text'.

But, should the builder turn up at the door uninvited, my additional advice was there as a way of handling it so as to not get drawn in or embroiled. I guess, as an alternative, the door could just be slammed in the builder's face with a "So sue me", but not many folk want to do that, and rightly so. 

Best, I think, is to engage, so the builder knows the score, and knows that you know it too. And the best way to engage, I think, is by putting the other party on the back foot by not 'arguing', but simply 'asking'. After asking these Qs a couple of times, the builder should feel a bit foolish, and hopefully also 'twig'.

The OP's partner, can, of course, handle this any way they like.

ThisIsWeird

SpudGunPaul said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Inform them of this by a recorded means, ideally email or text. She should also have her phone ready to 'record' should they come by her house.

She should be calm and succinct - let them rant if they want to, as it'll ultimately count against them. If they do, just stare at him/them until they finish, and bring it back to the facts.

Worth practising making these points in the form of Qs as much as possible. "Why did you leave the site and end the contract?" Presumably they'll cite the concrete floor, to which the next Q is, "How many times did you survey the job?" "Are you telling me you didn't realise the floor was concrete before you began the work?" "What %-age of garage floors are concrete?" etc etc.

And then, "Are you telling me that I should pay you for a job that you didn't actually do? For a job you didn't realise you couldn't do even after 2 surveys? Didn't reckon the floor was concrete even tho' just about every garage in the UK has a concrete floor?"

Stick with these points, bring any deviation by them back to this. Repeat them until they answer each one as required.

Making these points in the form of Qs forces them to answer. If, instead, you simply state these points, they'll argue, and they'll be masters of that.

Any threats, implied or actual, call up your local police and tell them of your concerns. Don't over-egg, just state what was said, and in what manner, calmly and succinctly.

(On a different note, what were they planning to do to your garage to cure this 'damp' anyway - fit drains inside? Worth your partner starting a new thread on here about this, posting photos, inside and out of the garage.)

The don't have a case so why do you say ranting will count against them?

Being upset if you feel you're owed money doesn't change whether you're entitled to it or not. A one off visit to an address if you think you're owed money isn't a course of conduct so a single rant is irrelevant. 

Oh and for your info there there are only certain threats the police will deal with. 

Thank you for statements of the obvious.

Where you conveniently qualify your comments by somehow assuming it would be a single visit. 

And should this seemingly misguided builder attempt a claim against the OP's partner, you reckong the fact they ranted during their visits, whilst the OP'sP was a paragon of virtuous reason, won't count against them? 

And and at what point should the OP'sP consider informing the police? I reckon 'implied or actual threats' - if the recipient feels genuinely intimidated by either their behaviour, or what they say, or a combi, when almost certainly intimidation was the point.

What's the point of your post? Or it's purpose?

Doozergirl

ThisIsWeird said:

Doozergirl said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Inform them of this by a recorded means, ideally email or text. She should also have her phone ready to 'record' should they come by her house.

She should be calm and succinct - let them rant if they want to, as it'll ultimately count against them. If they do, just stare at him/them until they finish, and bring it back to the facts.

Worth practising making these points in the form of Qs as much as possible. "Why did you leave the site and end the contract?" Presumably they'll cite the concrete floor, to which the next Q is, "How many times did you survey the job?" "Are you telling me you didn't realise the floor was concrete before you began the work?" "What %-age of garage floors are concrete?" etc etc.

And then, "Are you telling me that I should pay you for a job that you didn't actually do? For a job you didn't realise you couldn't do even after 2 surveys? Didn't reckon the floor was concrete even tho' just about every garage in the UK has a concrete floor?"

Stick with these points, bring any deviation by them back to this. Repeat them until they answer each one as required.

Making these points in the form of Qs forces them to answer. If, instead, you simply state these points, they'll argue, and they'll be masters of that.

Any threats, implied or actual, call up your local police and tell them of your concerns. Don't over-egg, just state what was said, and in what manner, calmly and succinctly.

(On a different note, what were they planning to do to your garage to cure this 'damp' anyway - fit drains inside? Worth your partner starting a new thread on here about this, posting photos, inside and out of the garage.)

Why engage in conversation with them?  Especially asking questions? 

They have no leg to stand on.  The best advice is to ignore them entirely.  Block their numbers and call 101 regarding any harassment if it continues.  

But yes, I totally agree on finding out what the issue is!  Photos, definitely!  Let's try and save this lady some more money - this could have been a lucky escape!  

To clarify, I'm not at all suggesting they invite a conversation, in fact I said 'ideally by email or text'.

But, should the builder turn up at the door uninvited, my additional advice was there as a way of handling it so as not to get drawn in or embroiled. I guess, as an alternative, the door could just be slammed in the builder's face with a "So sue me", but not many folk want to do that, and rightly so. 

Best, I think, is to engage, so the builder knows the score. And the best way to engage, I think, is by putting the other party on the back foot by not 'arguing', but simply 'asking'. After asking these Qs a couple of times, the builder should feel a bit foolish, and hopefully also 'twig'.

The OP's partner, can, of course, handle this any way they like.

They won't feel foolish, though, because they're already proving themselves either completely foolish or downright criminals as it is.  There's nothing to twig, no decent person would be asking for any money.     

Asking questions opens the idea that the OP can be persuaded by them or it just invites an argument and the opportunity for the situation to escalate.  It puts people at risk.  

I wouldn't open the door, let alone slam it.   I'd wait for the County Court claim that won't be forthcoming.  

ThisIsWeird

Fair do's.

GrubbyGirl_2

As a female I would write a letter rather than have a face to face encounter.  You have lots of good advice regarding what you should say.  The only thing I would add is the potential to also state that if he intends to sue then he needs to be prepared for a counter suit to rectify the damage to your floor done by his employees.  And as for £900 for a days work (I assume 2 guys) is he seriously expecting you to believe he's paying his labourers £56 an hour?

ThisIsWeird

I really wouldn't suggest making any threat that are not honestly prepared to carry out. 

SpudGunPaul

ThisIsWeird said:

SpudGunPaul said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Inform them of this by a recorded means, ideally email or text. She should also have her phone ready to 'record' should they come by her house.

She should be calm and succinct - let them rant if they want to, as it'll ultimately count against them. If they do, just stare at him/them until they finish, and bring it back to the facts.

Worth practising making these points in the form of Qs as much as possible. "Why did you leave the site and end the contract?" Presumably they'll cite the concrete floor, to which the next Q is, "How many times did you survey the job?" "Are you telling me you didn't realise the floor was concrete before you began the work?" "What %-age of garage floors are concrete?" etc etc.

And then, "Are you telling me that I should pay you for a job that you didn't actually do? For a job you didn't realise you couldn't do even after 2 surveys? Didn't reckon the floor was concrete even tho' just about every garage in the UK has a concrete floor?"

Stick with these points, bring any deviation by them back to this. Repeat them until they answer each one as required.

Making these points in the form of Qs forces them to answer. If, instead, you simply state these points, they'll argue, and they'll be masters of that.

Any threats, implied or actual, call up your local police and tell them of your concerns. Don't over-egg, just state what was said, and in what manner, calmly and succinctly.

(On a different note, what were they planning to do to your garage to cure this 'damp' anyway - fit drains inside? Worth your partner starting a new thread on here about this, posting photos, inside and out of the garage.)

The don't have a case so why do you say ranting will count against them?

Being upset if you feel you're owed money doesn't change whether you're entitled to it or not. A one off visit to an address if you think you're owed money isn't a course of conduct so a single rant is irrelevant. 

Oh and for your info there there are only certain threats the police will deal with. 

Thank you for statements of the obvious.

Where you conveniently qualify your comments by somehow assuming it would be a single visit. 

And should this seemingly misguided builder attempt a claim against the OP's partner, you reckong the fact they ranted during their visits, whilst the OP'sP was a paragon of virtuous reason, won't count against them? 

And and at what point should the OP'sP consider informing the police? I reckon 'implied or actual threats' - if the recipient feels genuinely intimidated by either their behaviour, or what they say, or a combi, when almost certainly intimidation was the point.

What's the point of your post? Or it's purpose?

It absolutely won't count against them. Either they'd have the evidence to win in court or they wouldn't. Sounds like you're somehow claiming being polite would tip the balance of probability. 

I see how you assume there will be multiple visits until the money is paid. 

ThisIsWeird

SpudGunPaul said:

ThisIsWeird said:

SpudGunPaul said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Inform them of this by a recorded means, ideally email or text. She should also have her phone ready to 'record' should they come by her house.

She should be calm and succinct - let them rant if they want to, as it'll ultimately count against them. If they do, just stare at him/them until they finish, and bring it back to the facts.

Worth practising making these points in the form of Qs as much as possible. "Why did you leave the site and end the contract?" Presumably they'll cite the concrete floor, to which the next Q is, "How many times did you survey the job?" "Are you telling me you didn't realise the floor was concrete before you began the work?" "What %-age of garage floors are concrete?" etc etc.

And then, "Are you telling me that I should pay you for a job that you didn't actually do? For a job you didn't realise you couldn't do even after 2 surveys? Didn't reckon the floor was concrete even tho' just about every garage in the UK has a concrete floor?"

Stick with these points, bring any deviation by them back to this. Repeat them until they answer each one as required.

Making these points in the form of Qs forces them to answer. If, instead, you simply state these points, they'll argue, and they'll be masters of that.

Any threats, implied or actual, call up your local police and tell them of your concerns. Don't over-egg, just state what was said, and in what manner, calmly and succinctly.

(On a different note, what were they planning to do to your garage to cure this 'damp' anyway - fit drains inside? Worth your partner starting a new thread on here about this, posting photos, inside and out of the garage.)

The don't have a case so why do you say ranting will count against them?

Being upset if you feel you're owed money doesn't change whether you're entitled to it or not. A one off visit to an address if you think you're owed money isn't a course of conduct so a single rant is irrelevant. 

Oh and for your info there there are only certain threats the police will deal with. 

Thank you for statements of the obvious.

Where you conveniently qualify your comments by somehow assuming it would be a single visit. 

And should this seemingly misguided builder attempt a claim against the OP's partner, you reckong the fact they ranted during their visits, whilst the OP'sP was a paragon of virtuous reason, won't count against them? 

And and at what point should the OP'sP consider informing the police? I reckon 'implied or actual threats' - if the recipient feels genuinely intimidated by either their behaviour, or what they say, or a combi, when almost certainly intimidation was the point.

What's the point of your post? Or it's purpose?

It absolutely won't count against them. Either they'd have the evidence to win in court or they wouldn't. Sounds like you're somehow claiming being polite would tip the balance of probability. 

I see how you assume there will be multiple visits until the money is paid. 

Not 'polite', but reasonable, factual, non-threatening.
As well you know.

I assumed there would be more than one visit? Could point out where I implied that? No.
As well you know.

Again - what is the purpose of your post?

mi-key

I can't really understand what they were doing anyway ! You wouldn't put a drain into a garage floor unless there was standing water gathering in there as damp on the walls isn't going to drain off anywhere. 

It sounds like the workmen were complete bodgers, even more so if they weren't expecting a concrete floor. I get the feeling if they had done the work, it wouldn't have cured the problem anyway and she would have got ripped off and had a lot more problems than them just leaving

SpudGunPaul

ThisIsWeird said:

SpudGunPaul said:

ThisIsWeird said:

SpudGunPaul said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Inform them of this by a recorded means, ideally email or text. She should also have her phone ready to 'record' should they come by her house.

She should be calm and succinct - let them rant if they want to, as it'll ultimately count against them. If they do, just stare at him/them until they finish, and bring it back to the facts.

Worth practising making these points in the form of Qs as much as possible. "Why did you leave the site and end the contract?" Presumably they'll cite the concrete floor, to which the next Q is, "How many times did you survey the job?" "Are you telling me you didn't realise the floor was concrete before you began the work?" "What %-age of garage floors are concrete?" etc etc.

And then, "Are you telling me that I should pay you for a job that you didn't actually do? For a job you didn't realise you couldn't do even after 2 surveys? Didn't reckon the floor was concrete even tho' just about every garage in the UK has a concrete floor?"

Stick with these points, bring any deviation by them back to this. Repeat them until they answer each one as required.

Making these points in the form of Qs forces them to answer. If, instead, you simply state these points, they'll argue, and they'll be masters of that.

Any threats, implied or actual, call up your local police and tell them of your concerns. Don't over-egg, just state what was said, and in what manner, calmly and succinctly.

(On a different note, what were they planning to do to your garage to cure this 'damp' anyway - fit drains inside? Worth your partner starting a new thread on here about this, posting photos, inside and out of the garage.)

The don't have a case so why do you say ranting will count against them?

Being upset if you feel you're owed money doesn't change whether you're entitled to it or not. A one off visit to an address if you think you're owed money isn't a course of conduct so a single rant is irrelevant. 

Oh and for your info there there are only certain threats the police will deal with. 

Thank you for statements of the obvious.

Where you conveniently qualify your comments by somehow assuming it would be a single visit. 

And should this seemingly misguided builder attempt a claim against the OP's partner, you reckong the fact they ranted during their visits, whilst the OP'sP was a paragon of virtuous reason, won't count against them? 

And and at what point should the OP'sP consider informing the police? I reckon 'implied or actual threats' - if the recipient feels genuinely intimidated by either their behaviour, or what they say, or a combi, when almost certainly intimidation was the point.

What's the point of your post? Or it's purpose?

It absolutely won't count against them. Either they'd have the evidence to win in court or they wouldn't. Sounds like you're somehow claiming being polite would tip the balance of probability. 

I see how you assume there will be multiple visits until the money is paid. 

Not 'polite', but reasonable, factual, non-threatening.
As well you know.

I assumed there would be more than one visit? Could point out where I implied that? No.
As well you know.

Again - what is the purpose of your post?

It would still come down to evidence in a dispute about money. 

So why pick pick up on the fact I mentioned a single visit?