Need some advice on a car we are about to buy (maybe)

ireallycantyodel

Hi, I hope someone who is a lot more savvy with cars can help. I need some advice about a car I was going to buy

So this is the car: 

FORD FOCUS 1.6 TDCI ZETEC ESTATE IN SILVER, GOOD CONDITION INSIDE AND OUT, DRIVES GREAT, COMES WITH 2 KEYS, PART SERVICE HISTORY, CAMBELT AND WATERPUMP CHANGE IN AT 99K, £20 TAX FOR THE YEAR, MOT TILL NOVEMBER 2023, VERY SPACIOUS, GREAT LOOKING CAR MUST BE SEEN, WE ARE OPEN 7 DAYS A WEEK, CALL TODAY FOR A FREE TEST DRIVE, ALL CARS AND VANS ARE PROVIDED WITH A 3 MONTHS ENGINE AND GEARBOX WARRANTY, FREE DELIVERY AVAILABLE WITHIN A 20 MILE RADIUS, INDOOR VIEWING AVAILABLE, ANY VEHICLE LESS THAN A 6 MONTHS MOT WILL BE PROVIDED WITH A 12 MONTHS MOT, WE WILL TAKE ANY CAR IN PART EXCHANGE, CALL FOR ANY INFO , Silver, 3 owners, £3,295

I also checked the MOT which passed with flying colours last time - no advisories. I am not worried about 3 owners or 130k - it's a 10 year old car 

I asked another mechanic for advise but I think he was being a bit over the top and I am not sure if he took things a bit out of context - it was also a text conversation and I didn't want to play WhatsApp pingpong. We went to see the car twice and test drove it – it was fine. For context the car has a 3 month engine and gearbox warranty and your usual 28 day warranty for anything else. It has MOT until November. 

When we first turned up (unannounced) the mechanic from the dealership was just about to do some work on the car and he had no idea we were coming. He was working on the car as the previous owner poured oil into the coolant container (I saw it, it wasn’t mixed in with water, it was 100% brand new oil, apparently the previous owner just dumped a litre in there). He said he is flushing the system and if we want to, to come back the following week to test drive it, which we did.

It has an “Engine Failure” warning which will be fixed – engine is fine and sounds fine – it just seems to be a sensor issue and he said he won’t hand the car over before this is done. Overall the place has really good reviews on Google and Autotrader. The mechanic seemed to be super accommodating and conscientious.

My other mechanic immediately panicked and said it might have a head gasket issue if it’s oil mixed in with water but even when I told him it was 100% oil he said it’s a common trick they use (I couldn't find much on Google - just scammers who want to buy a car and pour oil in there to knock the price off). I am not sure what the purpose of this would be especially when we had just turned up unannounced so it didn’t make a lot of sense to me. When we test drove it he had already fixed and flushed the system and it looked all clean and coolant is now 100%. Especially having a warranty I am sure they wouldn’t risk selling a car with a faulty head gasket? What do you think?

Of course it might be that ALL of the reviews are fake (on autotrader, Google and Facebook) and the guy is just being canny and whatnot but one of the reasons we want to buy from a dealer is because we would have no protection at all if we bought privately and I think it's wishful thinking finding a used car without any issues whatsoever so I could fret about this forever (we also wanted an estate car as we need more boot space). I have no evidence at the moment that he wants to screw us over (other than the usual nightmare stories about every second hand car salesman alive), he was upfront with everything. But the thing is he has no negative reviews either apart from one which happens to most businesses.

I don't want to be naive and my knowledge of cars is limited but I also don't want to spend weeks trying to find a car and fret about every little thing that might go wrong. A lot of modern cars (2010 and thereafter) have electronics that go a bit iffy and my previous car was also a Focus but super basic and amazingly reliable and cheap to fix.

Nobbie1967

Probably a good idea to check the history of the dealer at companies house. If it has been trading under the same company for many years then it’s likely they are fairly reliable. If it’s only been trading under the current company for a year or so, it might indicate a more dodgy outfit which regularly dissolves itself when issues arise. How many miles ago was it last serviced? If fairly recent, you’d have to worry about it needing a litre of oil to top up.

tacpot12

I don't think you can rely on many dealers to be honest. The Engine Failure light and oil in the coolant are certainly red flags. It's possible the oil was added because they suspect (or know) that it has a head gasket leak, and they were ready with the story that it was the previous owner that did this. The dealers will often say that the Engine Management Light is just a sensor, and reset the fault code and hope that it goes away. I think I would ask them what the fault code was and for their invoice for the sensor that they replaced. They might have replaced the sensor, but with a very cheap copy that won't be reliable. And of course reviews can be faked, but you should be able to spot this. 

I wouldn't take too much notice of the warranty that is offered. Really your protection is in the Consumer Credit Act 2015. By agreeing to fix the problem, they are confirming that the car should not have these faults. If it turns out that it does have either of the faults (leaking head gasket or a bad sensor that is causing the Engine Management light to come on), you should be able to get your money back, although the dealer will try everything they can to avoid this. You may need to go to court to recover your money. 

I think it also helps that you know and like the brand and model. I run an old Ford Mondeo which has also proved to be quite reliable, and cheap to fix. Although I've now stopped fitting pattern parts and only fit genuine Ford items, which are often three times the price, but at least they work as they should.

Buying any car is a risk, and nerve-wracking as a result. No-one can say whether this car is going to be a good buy or not, you  will just have to way up the information you have vs. the work of walking away and having to find another car (that might  have just as many red flags). 

Nobbie1967

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11739309

Doesn’t look good in terms of how the company is run. Car could be fine though.

ireallycantyodel

Nobbie1967 said:

Probably a good idea to check the history of the dealer at companies house. If it has been trading under the same company for many years then it’s likely they are fairly reliable. If it’s only been trading under the current company for a year or so, it might indicate a more dodgy outfit which regularly dissolves itself when issues arise. How many miles ago was it last serviced? If fairly recent, you’d have to worry about it needing a litre of oil to top up.

They are servicing it beforehand (he said he'll send us pictures as proof and provide a stamp in the service history)

They've been around since 2019 under current ownership. That's one of the first things I checked.

tacpot12 said:

I don't think you can rely on many dealers to be honest. The Engine Failure light and oil in the coolant are certainly red flags. It's possible the oil was added because they suspect (or know) that it has a head gasket leak, and they were ready with the story that it was the previous owner that did this. The dealers will often say that the Engine Management Light is just a sensor, and reset the fault code and hope that it goes away. I think I would ask them what the fault code was and for their invoice for the sensor that they replaced. They might have replaced the sensor, but with a very cheap copy that won't be reliable. And of course reviews can be faked, but you should be able to spot this. 

I wouldn't take too much notice of the warranty that is offered. Really your protection is in the Consumer Credit Act 2015. By agreeing to fix the problem, they are confirming that the car should not have these faults. If it turns out that it does have either of the faults (leaking head gasket or a bad sensor that is causing the Engine Management light to come on), you should be able to get your money back, although the dealer will try everything they can to avoid this. You may need to go to court to recover your money. 

I think it also helps that you know and like the brand and model. I run an old Ford Mondeo which has also proved to be quite reliable, and cheap to fix. Although I've now stopped fitting pattern parts and only fit genuine Ford items, which are often three times the price, but at least they work as they should.

Buying any car is a risk, and nerve-wracking as a result. No-one can say whether this car is going to be a good buy or not, you  will just have to way up the information you have vs. the work of walking away and having to find another car (that might  have just as many red flags). 

I will also be using a credit card to protect me so I can always do a charge back (hopefully)

I guess what I can't wrap my head around is why he would put oil in the coolant canister just in case a potential customer walks in and ask about the same car and whether or not it has head gasket issues.

It makes no sense to me.

angrycrow

Personally I would say walk away just on the story of oil in the coolant tank. Engine failure warning is another red flag. 

Here is the actual advert from auto trader.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301263623377

MOT history is not great but I have seen far worse. 

What is concerning is the dealer. Companies house entry 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11739309

They are in the process of being dissolved due to failing to file their accounts. I suspect the dealer won't be around long enough to collect on the worthless 3 month warranty if something goes wrong. 

Not convinced most of the reviews are genuine either.

ireallycantyodel

angrycrow said:

Personally I would say walk away just on the story of oil in the coolant tank. Engine failure warning is another red flag. 

Here is the actual advert from auto trader.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301263623377

MOT history is not great but I have seen far worse. 

What is concerning is the dealer. Companies house entry 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11739309

They are in the process of being dissolved due to failing to file their accounts. I suspect the dealer won't be around long enough to collect on the worthless 3 month warranty if something goes wrong. 

Not convinced most of the reviews are genuine either.

Thanks, yes the latter point is a good one, if they get struck off the warranty is useless

The coolant tank story doesn't worry me too much for the reason mentioned above, it makes little sense considering that we just turned up (unless someone else was there before to check the car but then still, what's the point? I am sure if it hadn't happened I would probably not have questioned whether or not the head gasket had an issue either)

But yes the warranty situation worries me

easy

I wouldn't touch it. 
If the Engine failure warning was easy to fix,  why didn't he fix it before letting you test drive it?  

And clearly,  they don't care about the rules of being in business -  failing to file statutory accounts -  there will be other aspects of business he isn't properly paying attention to,  which might include the safety of the car you are buying  (remember,  an MOT pass only means that it met the MOT standard on the day it was tested.  Anything could have changed since last November).

There are plenty of other cars available out there ...  walk away from this one.

wigglygiggly

Walk away. There are plenty of other cars about.

ireallycantyodel

easy said:

I wouldn't touch it. 
If the Engine failure warning was easy to fix,  why didn't he fix it before letting you test drive it?  

And clearly,  they don't care about the rules of being in business -  failing to file statutory accounts -  there will be other aspects of business he isn't properly paying attention to,  which might include the safety of the car you are buying  (remember,  an MOT pass only means that it met the MOT standard on the day it was tested.  Anything could have changed since last November).

There are plenty of other cars available out there ...  walk away from this one.

I was going to test drive it again after it has been fixed

The person we spoke to is not the owner so I can't say the accounts are his fault but it's worrying that if they got struck off that we wouldn't be able to get the warranty.

I had already paid a deposit but by credit card so if we pull out I might use section 75 to get it back if they won't refund it

Grumpy_chap

You can check the MOT history and tax status online at the .gov website for free.

That is a useful good first guide to the condition of the car and whether it has always been well maintained - if it had a history of failed the MOT with a string of majors and then passed, it might indicate the care or otherwise of past owners.  Don't just look at the most recent MOT, but see if there was one a day or week before that gives better information.

The tax check will give an indication as to when the car was sold by the previous owner - does the tax expired date align with when you first saw the car and the previous owner apparently dumping a litre of oil in the coolant a day or two before?