2 PCNs for same car - pros & cons of doing a SAR

WePcnAnyCar

I received 2 windscreen PCNs for my car 5 years ago.

PCN-1 was followed by a valid NTK but PCN-2 wasn't. PCN-1 has progressed to filing my defence as keeper & driver. Nothing further ever heard about PCN 2.

PCN-1 is defendable, and following your advice here I'm likely to win or receive a discontinuation notice. However, for PCN-2 the driver did break one of the Terms of parking. 

My concern is that if I apply for a SAR in preparing my WS for PCN-1, I may receive information about PCN-2. This would prevent me from denying knowledge of PCN-2, and may even whet the PPC's appetite for claiming on PCN-2.

Should I apply for a SAR for PCN-1? Thanks.

B789

Are both PCNs for the same car in the same car park? Are they both from the same PPC? The PPC can file a claim up to 6 years after the event. There's no guarantee that they will follow up the second PCN but you never know.

Did you ever appeal the PCNs?

Can you provide details of the contents of both PCN's, suitably redacted of personal information and VRN. Also, can you provide the details in the PoC for PCN-1. Who is acting on behalf of the PPC?

A lot of questions but you seem to have some understanding of the process you are now involved in, considering you have completed your AoC in time and are now at the defence filing stage. Have you read the Newbies thread near the top of this forum? It explains the steps involved and has some template defences you can use. However, if you give us some more detail here, you can receive better advice on which defence points you should prioritise.

Regarding the SAR issue, if it is the same PPC, it will be irrelevant which PCN as they are obliged to provide you with ALL personal information they hold on you which would include any correspondence they have had for ANY PCN. Sometimes people find out from an SAR that they even have other PCNs they were unaware of.

Coupon-mad

Yes, do the SAR.  Do not send any email to the solicitor though.

Is it DCBLegal and UKPC?  Or who?

What's the background, type of car park?

If a second claim or LBC arrives, if it was about a PCN with pretty much duplicate facts/same car park, you can kill it with the Henderson v Henderson cause of action estoppel argument.

Search the forum & learn about that!

PCN-1 has progressed to filing my defence as keeper & driver.

Good.  Glad we helped you without needing a thread until now.

Did you adapt the Template Defence and got an acknowledgement from the CCBC by email?

WePcnAnyCar

Thank you
@B789
and
@Coupon-mad

I had to create this new thread to ask this question, because I obviously can't connect it to my existing thread for PCN-1 given my admission above with PCN-2. For this reason I can't answer all of your questions, but I'll answer what I can.

I'll only need this thread re PCN-1 and the SAR, anything else re PCN-1 I will use my original thread. Thanks for all the help that this forum has already provided with PCN-1.

B789 said:

Are both PCNs for the same car in the same car park? Are they both from the same PPC? The PPC can file a claim up to 6 years after the event. There's no guarantee that they will follow up the second PCN but you never know.

Yes. Yes. Thanks for confirming the 6 year limit. When both PCNs are resolved/timed out, I'll reveal all.

B789 said:

Did you ever appeal the PCNs?

PCN-1: yes. PCN-2: absolutely nothing happened from either party after the windscreen PCN.

B789 said:

Can you provide details of the contents of both PCN's, suitably redacted of personal information and VRN. Also, can you provide the details in the PoC for PCN-1. Who is acting on behalf of the PPC?

A lot of questions but you seem to have some understanding of the process you are now involved in, considering you have completed your AoC in time and are now at the defence filing stage. Have you read the Newbies thread near the top of this forum? It explains the steps involved and has some template defences you can use. However, if you give us some more detail here, you can receive better advice on which defence points you should prioritise.

I thank you for your questions, but you didn't know until now that this forum has already helped me re PCN-1. I'm sorry, I should have explained that. Thank you all for your help to get me past the defence acknowledged stage.

B789 said:

Regarding the SAR issue, if it is the same PPC, it will be irrelevant which PCN as they are obliged to provide you with ALL personal information they hold on you which would include any correspondence they have had for ANY PCN. Sometimes people find out from an SAR that they even have other PCNs they were unaware of.

Perfect. I didn't want to miss out on the SAR results, and from what you're saying, it's low risk.

Coupon-mad said:

Yes, do the SAR.  Do not send any email to the solicitor though.

Thank you, I will submit a SAR.

Coupon-mad said:

If a second claim or LBC arrives, if it was about a PCN with pretty much duplicate facts/same car park, you can kill it with the Henderson v Henderson cause of action estoppel argument.

Search the forum & learn about that!

Thanks. From what I understand from Henderson v Henderson, in my case although there were 2 separate PCNs, the PPC/Legal Rep should have included both PCNs on the Claim Form. So the fact that the driver broke a parking Term in PCN-2 is irrelevant - PCN-2 will not be allowed as a separate claim.

Coupon-mad said:

PCN-1 has progressed to filing my defence as keeper & driver.

Good.  Glad we helped you without needing a thread until now.

Er, sorry you did help me on a different thread. Thanks for all your help. 

Coupon-mad said:

Did you adapt the Template Defence and got an acknowledgement from the CCBC by email?

Yes & Yes.

WePcnAnyCar

I've got my, I've got my N279.

I've got my, I've got my N279.

The claim is finally discontinued and it's all over now after 6 years & 2 months. 

See further details under my main thread at https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6423105/badly-marked-parking-bays-in-a-roadway

I can't thank MSE enough for this wonderful resource. Thank you to all contributors and best wishes.

B789

Good news. Is that for both PCNs?

@Umkomaas alert!

Umkomaas

B789 said:

Good news. Is that for both PCNs?

@Umkomaas alert!

Already recorded yesterday. 👍

RedDragonHpc

B789 said:

Good news. Is that for both PCNs?

Ah good point, it's only for PCN-1. Nothing relating to PCN-2 was in the SAR material, and even if I do belatedly hear anything about it before 6 years, as @Coupon-mad says above, it won't be allowed as a separate claim.