Gladstones & PCM (uk) Ltd

Stolanive

Hello all, thank you in advance for any help, I will try and be as concise as I can. First, some background:

I sold an old/classic car of mine in January 2014 to an old acquaintance / dealer, it was in a bad way but he thought he could do something with it and it was part of a sale or return fee on another vehicle I was planning to sell. 

September 2020 I received 2 bus lane unpaid PCN letters from Barnet council, I appealed explaining the circumstances and also wrote to the DVLA, giving them as much detail as I could about the buyer and sale. 

Barnet Council replied saying they needed more proof within 10 working days. 

Unfortunately I no longer had any paperwork/receipts of sale of car, the buyer’s business had closed down some years before, we were no longer in contact and despite my best efforts in finding some other companies he had set up in the meantime, I couldn’t / can’t trace him. 

However DVLA then replied, after the Barnet 10 day cut off, acknowledging change of keeper in Jan 2014, but also saying the new keeper had not yet provided details, and also that:

”Any statutory notice for an offence/contravention that took place after you sold the vehicle should be returned to the issuing authority giving what details you can about the sale of the vehicle. Only the issuing authority is in a position to make a decision based on the evidence that you provide.”

I wrote to Barnet again supplying DVLA correspondence, never heard anything back, I believe this one has now run it’s course.

However, the car/owner had also received some other tickets that I wasn’t aware of. 

Last week I received a ‘Letter Before Claim’ from Gladstones, dated 1st Feb 2023, representing Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd, concerning 2 unpaid PCN’s from a residential car park issued in Sep 2020. The letter states they had previously written to an alternate address (previous) but had carried out a search trace which had produced this (my current) address. 

So, my initial queries (amongst many others I’m sure) are:

Do I proceed as normal with SAR to DPO at Parking Control Management, plus a holding letter to Gladstones?

With regards to defence, I don’t know the car park, or circumstances surrounding the issuing of the PCN’s, and I presume I would be declaring myself not driver nor keeper? Other than the DVLA letter I used previously for the Barnet Council correspondence I’m not sure what I can use as evidence etc, might this be enough?

Many thanks 

P

Coupon-mad

Do I proceed as normal with SAR to DPO at Parking Control Management, plus a holding letter to Gladstones?

Nope.  Not in your case.

Yes do the SAR to the PPC but obviously far more than a 'holding letter' to Gladstones.  Provide your DVLA evidence.  It MUST be enough but you must write robustly and clearly because this is an unregulated, rogue industry.

Show us your draft and we'll help make it punchier.

Solicitors are addressed in the salutation:

Dear Sirs,

and the email is signed off:

Yours faithfully,

{your name}

Stolanive

Good evening!

Thank you for your help above, following on from this, I wrote to Gladstones on 28th Feb 23 providing my DVLA evidence. 

I have received the reply below on 2nd June 23, any thoughts would be most well received:

“Good Afternoon, 

 Thank you for your correspondence and apologies for the delay in responding.

By way of background these charges were incurred on the 03/09/2020 and the 11/09/2020 at our clients site Carol Close. Issued to the vehicle bearing the registration K** ***, as the vehicle was parked without a permit, breaching the contractual terms and conditions of the site. 

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 (Paragraph 2) states that; the 'keeper' means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed unless the contrary is proved to be the registered keeper.

If a motorist sells a vehicle there is a legal obligation for a motorist to inform the DVLA of the new Keepers name and address. It is not the responsibility of the person purchasing the vehicle.   

You have provided a document from the DVLA which shows that they have updated their records further to a letter you sent them. This letter highlights that the records are not complete as the alleged buyer has not confirmed they are the new Registered Keeper. You will therefore be pursued as the Keeper.

Further to your question regarding the VC5, this is the motorist selling the vehicles responsibility and subsequently this has not been re issued since 2nd September 2002.

Our client remains satisfied these charges were correctly issued and, as the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the contraventions, you are liable.

Should full payment fail to be discharged before the 1st July 2023, our client reserves the right to issue further legal proceedings against you without further notice. 

Payment can be made via bank transfer to the account detailed as follows:….”

(Then just payment information / bank details)

Coupon-mad

OK, respond and ironically/sarcastically 'thank' Gs for drawing the POFA to your attention and in this reply, once again specifically name the keeper/driver you sold the vehicle to, and when. The 'old friend' dealer and give their last known postal address.  Even from years ago.

Then add some robust "get stuffed and stop abusing my data, you must now erase it" wording and include the link to the SCS Law legal article linked in this example:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79998878/#Comment_79998878

You can use that wording to a point, but your PPC aggressor is in the IPC, not the BPA AOS, so don't quote from the BPA CoP.  You might be able to find something similar in the IPC CoP about transferring liability.

Continue by saying, if they try a small claim they will be laughed out of court because you have met the requirements to transfer liability (per PoFA Schedule 4)  and are not liable.

And Gladstones know full well that you are not liable.

This long drawn out torturous pursuit feels very much like a course of conduct of harassment, unreasonably and aggressively pursuing an alleged debt that simply is not owed by the Defendant. Similarities may be drawn to the well known binding case of Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009), where Ms Ferguson was granted a substantial settlement plus costs and Jacob LJ said: "the persistent and continued conduct here pleaded was on the wrong side of the line, as amounting to ‘oppressive and unacceptable conduct’".

As such, the Defendant will counterclaim for not less than £300 for data abuse contrary to the DPA 2018 and the GDPR, should a claim be made AND if Gladstones fail to wind their necks in, their solicitor will be reported (without further notice) to the SRA and the FCA for continuing with oppressive and unacceptable conduct which by any reasonable interpretation is in breach of both the SRA's STaRs standards, and the FCA CONC rules for debt collection.

Finish by saying this is a matter that you know Gladstones will not welcome, given their disciplinary record at the SRA which is in the public domain on the SRA website.  And you will draw all of the above to the attention of the presiding Judge when considering damages for the counterclaim.

B789

Just to highlight the level of intellectual malnutrition at these robo-claim shysters:

If a motorist sells a vehicle there is a legal obligation for a motorist to inform the DVLA of the new Keepers name and address. It is not the responsibility of the person purchasing the vehicle.   

You have provided a document from the DVLA which shows that they have updated their records further to a letter you sent them. This letter highlights that the records are not complete as the alleged buyer has not confirmed they are the new Registered Keeper. You will therefore be pursued as the Keeper.

Those two sentences show the contradiction that they have overlooked thanks to their stupidity.