Can you get PIP if you suffer from a chronic condition preventing you from working full-time?

gilbutre

PIP eligibility rules describe people who are too disabled to do very basic things like eating or dressing. What about people who can do these things yet cannot work full-time for some reason (for example extreme chronic fatighe)?

Is it me or these people currently cannot receive any help hence are basically scr**ed?

Muttleythefrog

Plenty good posts with links around this board and the Disability Money Matters board and likely some will come and post them.

However in brief.... diagnosis as such doesn't qualify you for the benefit but rather whether disability, illness, injury prevent you from performing the respective daily living and/or mobility tasks reliably.

I've no doubt there will be people with Chronic Fatigue or even undiagnosed conditions getting PIP.

Working status is irrelevant and PIP is not means tested... so you can be an airline pilot and millionaire and get it but of course if you claim to be unable to do things a pilot would do daily as a job then it might affect evidence.

Importantly look at the various activities and the various descriptors.... and honestly appraise yourself and determine whether you'd score sufficient points to qualify for an award. If you think you do then I advise applying and taking guidance from CAB or links others provided here etc on how to describe your problems and complete the Disability form (which will be later sent to you after initial details provided) which will form the basis of starting to assess entitlement. 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf

Please take note (especially given reference to fatigue in your post!) that to be able to perform a task you need to do it reliably and that means safely, to acceptable standard, as often as reasonably required and within a reasonable time period.... so for example if you are able to dress yourself but it takes 3 hours then clearly that would not be in a reasonable time. I imagine fatigue could be a big factor in preventing someone performing many daily tasks reliably.

Universal Credit is a means tested benefit that could also be relevant and in particular this should be checked if low paid or with limitations on ability to work due to disability/illness.

calcotti

Chronic fatigue may well give you difficulty carrying out the activities which could qualify you for PIP.

In respect of not being able to work the relevant benefits are
- New Style ESA (but you can only receive this if you have a complete NI record for tax years 2020-21 and 2021-22), or
- extra money in Universal Credit.

ns-ESA is not means tested but UC is. If both are claimed the ESA is deducted from the UC.

Alice_Holt

gilbutre said:

PIP eligibility rules describe people who are too disabled to do very basic things like eating or dressing. What about people who can do these things yet cannot work full-time for some reason (for example extreme chronic fatighe)?

Is it me or these people currently cannot receive any help hence are basically scr**ed?

       It's you.   You have misunderstood the PIP criteria.

  Many people with chronic fatigue successfully claim PIP as they cannot perform the PIP activities reliably  (i.e in a reasonable time, safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly as required, etc) on the majority of days.

Google the PIP assessment guide / the Benefits & Work website / Adviceguide for more information.
Look carefully at what they say about "reliably", and consider if that applies to you.

If you decide to claim, I would strongly advise that you get help to complete the form from your local advice charity rather than doing it yourself.

gilbutre

I can easily do all of the stuff listed on https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf, no doubt about it.

But for the life of me I cannot work full-time. The chronic, crushing nature of my fatigue barely allows part-time. I spend my days sighing because of how insanely tired I am and on top of that I have shortness of breath at least half of the time (saw GPs about these symptoms many times, they can't fix it, they don't know what it is except that it's psychologically rooted since none of the tests revealed any physiological issue)

As I implied in my original post, my situation falls through the cracks of the list isn't it?

Spoonie_Turtle

gilbutre said:

I can easily do all of the stuff listed on https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf, no doubt about it.

But for the life of me I cannot work full-time. The chronic, crushing nature of my fatigue barely allows part-time. I spend my days sighing because of how insanely tired I am and on top of that I have shortness of breath at least half of the time (saw GPs about these symptoms many times, they can't fix it, they don't know what it is except that it's psychologically rooted since none of the tests revealed any physiological issue)

As I implied in my original post, my situation falls through the cracks of the list isn't it?

Just to point it this is almost certainly untrue.  Lots of chronic illnesses don't show up on standard tests, and for some (such as ME) there are literally only two possible tests currently that might be able to 'prove' it, one is not recommended at all because of the very real risk of permanent deterioration, and one is still being researched.  So there are no actual tests available, realistically.  That does NOT mean it is psychological, it just means your Dr is lazy not looking at different sets of diagnostic criteria for an actual cause, and very much outdated in their understanding.

You say you can do the PIP activities - but can you do them without them causing excess fatigue afterwards?  Can you do them in a typical timeframe?  Can you do them as often as reasonably required - washing/bathing every day, getting dressed and undressed every day, preparing/cooking three meals a day, walking for as long and as far as you need to live a typical life without it wearing you out? 

The mobility is quite a high threshold so it's possible if you're in the "milder" stages of a chronic energy limiting illness you might not meet any of the descriptors, but I find it hard to believe you can do all the activities of daily living whenever you need to without any detrimental effects - otherwise you would have energy left over to work as well.

Please have a read of https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria  and take particular note of the Reliability section.

As explained by calcotti the benefits to be looking at related to difficulty working are new-style ESA and/or Universal Credit.

I strongly advise you to get some expert advice about PIP.  

Realistically some people do fall through the cracks, and the routinely disgraceful outcomes of benefit assessments really don't help by making many people think they aren't eligible - but if people understand how it's assessed and are able to fight it (and that's the bit where lots of people end up excluded, not having the energy to fight) then not too many people should fall through the cracks in the system.

Muttleythefrog

gilbutre said:

I can easily do all of the stuff listed on https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf, no doubt about it.

But for the life of me I cannot work full-time. The chronic, crushing nature of my fatigue barely allows part-time. I spend my days sighing because of how insanely tired I am and on top of that I have shortness of breath at least half of the time (saw GPs about these symptoms many times, they can't fix it, they don't know what it is except that it's psychologically rooted since none of the tests revealed any physiological issue)

As I implied in my original post, my situation falls through the cracks of the list isn't it?

I reiterate what Spoonie says.... and remind again about the requirement that to be considered able to perform a task you must be able to do so reliably.... and that covers 4 areas of consideration I stated. The general description of your problem suggests to me reliably performing many daily tasks (including those of PIP activities) could well be difficult...and especially regarding repeatedly as required. I would take further advice and guidance and in particular if you do apply on how to describe your problems in order to impress the reliability consideration in any inability to perform tasks.

Although this isn't the place for medical advice I'm also inclined to agree with Spoonie that GPs can be lazy in seeking to discover the underlying causes of more commonly reported general symptoms like fatigue....and if chronic I suspect psychological factors are lesser important than others (possibly undetermined).

Jyana

gilbutre said:

I can easily do all of the stuff listed on https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf, no doubt about it.

But for the life of me I cannot work full-time. The chronic, crushing nature of my fatigue barely allows part-time. I spend my days sighing because of how insanely tired I am and on top of that I have shortness of breath at least half of the time (saw GPs about these symptoms many times, they can't fix it, they don't know what it is except that it's psychologically rooted since none of the tests revealed any physiological issue)

As I implied in my original post, my situation falls through the cracks of the list isn't it?

Much of what qualifies you being eligible for PIP is the extra tools or aids you require in order to do things that an able bodied person can do. Such as, requiring a perching stool rather than standing due to instability or fatigue, for example. Using that aid for each section - when cooking, showering, etc - would 'score' you the applicable points as it is something you need to benefit your situation, which from what you have said sounds like something you would need in your situation.

As Spoonie and calcotti say above, I really do think that you could do with a chat with an organisation who know the system well to steer you through the application successfully. There are many things you start to rely on without even thinking about it as your health starts to take a turn for the worse, I know I did. It wasn't until someone on the outside pointed out some of these things out to me that I realised how many little tricks and tips I had introduced into my life in order to get through the day over the years.

mick08

Thanks for posting this Gilbutre, I feel similar to you as in I can do these daily tasks but I'm in no way capable of work after treatment for stage 3 cancer. My employer terminated my employment due to me being incapable, some days I just sit in a chair due to shortness of breath.
Maybe it's worth a phone call to cab for me.

calcotti

mick08 said:

Thanks for posting this Gilbutre, I feel similar to you as in I can do these daily tasks but I'm in no way capable of work after treatment for stage 3 cancer. My employer terminated my employment due to me being incapable, some days I just sit in a chair due to shortness of breath.
Maybe it's worth a phone call to cab for me.

PIP is about what you can do on the majority of days to the standard referred to in earlier posts. You also need to have had the impact for three months and expect it continue for another nine months. If you current fatigue is expected tio improve fairly quickly following you treatment then PIP may not be applicable. If on the other hand it is expected to persist then chronic fatigue is likely to mean that you cannot carry out activities to the required standard.

mick08

Thanks Calcotti, I'm now coming up to 3 years like this, I'm 57 and unlikely to improve according to the medical consultant. I've booked a phone call with CAB.