Notice of Debt Recovery alleging unpaid parking charges

KeithP

Civic2056 said:

B789 said:

 @Civic2056 it is fairly apparent that you have not read, re-read, digested and started to understand what is in the Newbies thread near the top of this forum. You  will get excellent advice from the regular forum experts on here when necessary. However, this is a hand-holding exercise and you MUST do some of the legwork yourself and reading, following and understanding all the steps in this process as explained in the Newbies thread is vital. Hundreds of victims of these parking scammers are being assisted at any one time.

Read the Newbies thread and educate yourself on these few points first.

1. This is NOT a "fine". It is a simple civil dispute over an invoice which is an alleged debt by a scammer.
2. The paper that DCBL print their scamming text on is best used as floor lining to catch bird poo in cage. DCBL and any of the other bottom-dwelling debt recovery companies have absolutely no power to do anything to you, no matter how scary their letters appear. They are toothless lumps of excrement and if you'd read the Newbies thread you would know that already. You do NOT make ANY contact whatsoever with DCBL or any other DRA. Not by phone, not by letter and not by email. No contact with the idiots whatsoever.
3. In the meantime you can email the DPO of Highview Parking Ltd with a Subject Access Request. They are bound to provide a copy of everything they have about you in their system including copies of anything thyme sent you, including the PCN.
4. You need to gather evidence of the signage or lack of it at the car park. What exactly do any signs actually say? How visible or obstructed are they?

There's more but you'll gather that as you read and understand the process and the steps as noted in the Newbies thread.

The signage is clear.

Wow!
Where exactly is this car park?
I must pay a visit. I have yet to see a car park with clear signs.

To save me a trip, can you please show a pic of these clear signs?

fisherjim

Civic2056 said:

The signage is clear.

We just need to argue that we never recieved the first letter, so via the SAR

But was the signage compliant is the actual question, you need to post photos for regulars to decide that.

How is not receiving the first letter going to help please explain?

Coupon-mad

It will help if the OP doesn't just do the SAR and also does what I suggested because a BPA complaint might just get a POPLA Code, 

Then the keeper appellant wins, as we all know: 100% slam-dunk appeal win v Highview unless the NTK they say they sent earlier is miraculously a 'POFA compliant' one.

I add that word of caution, because we have now seen a CP Plus NTK with POFA wording.  And Highview are Group Nexus too.

Civic2056

OK so update:

So far we have ignored DCBL other than contacting them and highview to say we never recieved the first letter and therefore object to paying for it. The issue I have is is that the letter and debt concerns me, yet I was not the driver. If we go to court, it will be both me and my dad. If I tell the court I was not driving the car, my dad was...he is happy to pay the fine (not the £170 though the £70 debt collection charge, and the £40 added onto the £60 fine you're supposed to get first before the bailiffs start sending you letters), but if a CCJ is imposed etc that affects me.

We never received an original letter from the parking company, just a bailiffs letter, and two more since, today we had our "final warning" (they said that the last time to be fair) and warned of the usual court stuff.

However my brother's business interests at the lock up means he has had customers in this situation before where they were simply sent letters from DCBL and not the parking company. If we get them to sign an affadavit or call them as witnesses or what not would that aid this otherwise difficult to prove case, difficult to prove in that whether or not we received the original letter. You'd think they'd send it as recorded if it was that important. There were strikes on at the time but the other individuals who never recieved letters from Highview had their contraventions outside of the RM strikes so would be unaffected.

Umkomaas

Highview/DCB Legal won't do Court if you follow the process. Read this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1

Civic2056

Umkomaas said:

Highview/DCB Legal won't do Court if you follow the process. Read this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1

Thank you.
Is this to do with DCBL's proud claim (which was only true until recently) that 100% of the claims enforced through them see money recovered. With courts often finding in favour of the defendant they'd be less likely to meet that 100% figure

B789

Civic2056 said:

OK so update:

So far we have ignored DCBL other than contacting them and highview to say we never recieved the first letter and therefore object to paying for it. The issue I have is is that the letter and debt concerns me, yet I was not the driver. If we go to court, it will be both me and my dad. If I tell the court I was not driving the car, my dad was...he is happy to pay the fine (not the £170 though the £70 debt collection charge, and the £40 added onto the £60 fine you're supposed to get first before the bailiffs start sending you letters), but if a CCJ is imposed etc that affects me.

We never received an original letter from the parking company, just a bailiffs letter, and two more since, today we had our "final warning" (they said that the last time to be fair) and warned of the usual court stuff.

However my brother's business interests at the lock up means he has had customers in this situation before where they were simply sent letters from DCBL and not the parking company. If we get them to sign an affadavit or call them as witnesses or what not would that aid this otherwise difficult to prove case, difficult to prove in that whether or not we received the original letter. You'd think they'd send it as recorded if it was that important. There were strikes on at the time but the other individuals who never recieved letters from Highview had their contraventions outside of the RM strikes so would be unaffected.

@Civic2056, why on earth do you keep going on about paying anything to these scammers? You were told back in February to read, re-read and read again the Newbies/FAQ thread in order to get some education on what this process involves. You are part of a massive scam and yet you seem to be ignoring the advice you are being given and don't appear to have bothered to actually read, not just skim-read the Newbies/FAQ thread.

Do you really want to be marked up as a mug by these scamming PPCs by funding their scam? You have received a speculative invoice for an alleged debt for allegedly breaking the terms of a contract. You keep wittering on about a "fine" thus elevating this ex-clamper to some kind of authority.

Show us a picture of the signs at the location and I can guarantee that we will be able to pick holes in their scam "contract". You also mention that you have now seen the original PCN that you were hoping would be some kind of golden ticket because you hadn't received it. Show us a redacted version of it so we can check it for PoFA compliance. You mentioned earlier that you "ignored" DCBL but then mention that you did contact them to find out where the original PCN was. Did you in any way blab the identity of the driver? 

If you've studied the Newbies/FAQ thread, you would know that there is a very important distinction between "driver" and "keeper" in law. There are lots of defence points to use should Highview ever be dumb enough to take this all the way to court.

Have you done what @Coupon-mad mad has advised you to do? You have not acknowledged her advice once but she is just about the most experienced person on here and also sits on the Steering Group for the upcoming government DLUHC PPCoP. Follow her advice about complaining to the BPA and try and get a POPLA code.

So, please stop fretting, take on board the advice and read up on the Newbies/FAQ thread and get on with your life for now. If nothing else, just wait for an LoC, a real one, not a fake one from a debt collector, and by then, you will know how to defend it with assistance from this forum.

Coupon-mad

Civic2056 said:

Umkomaas said:

Highview/DCB Legal won't do Court if you follow the process. Read this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1

Thank you.
Is this to do with DCBL's proud claim (which was only true until recently) that 100% of the claims enforced through them see money recovered. With courts often finding in favour of the defendant they'd be less likely to meet that 100% figure

Where did you see that?

fisherjim

Civic2056 said:

I know, I know its not a fine. I don't plan on making contact with DCBL but instead the car park company with an SAR etc
The signage is clear.
There was a breach - the family member used the car park for 14 minutes instead of the permitted 10.
We just need to argue that we never recieved the first letter, so via the SAR

In my opinion and if the driver was visiting the premises for the first time the signage is not only unclear, it is non conformant to the COP, illegible when driving in and gives no indication of a 10minute time frame.

The fact that you never got the first letter will not get the debt collection muppets or the PPC off your backs, they will produce evidence they sent it.

You need to stop making excuses for them, stop imagining loop holes that are not there and follow the guidance on here.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6298444,0.3279113,3a,75y,80.44h,86.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfTMzCXsfPSdRaWkBMUjTdA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Civic2056

Ok so update:

It's been back and forth with DCB Legal for a few months. Every few weeks they'd send a letter continuing to ask us to pay. My father, who was driving the car, but who is not the RK (I am), kept telling DCBL and Highview that we would not be paying their invoice as the first letter was not sent ot us by highview where we had the chance to pay a reduced fine. My father does not contest this and has maintained he will pay the original amount, but will not recognise the increased amount Highview are charging plus the debt collection charges. After putting our case forward through the sham which is Highview appeals, and having no response, we just ignored their empty threats, it's a bit of a joke to be honest. I've seen here I think on the newbies thread or a relatively recent thread about a standard template for DCBL and highview before it gets to court and they end up dropping it. 

Last time we heard from them was a couple months back telling us that that their client would now investigate legal action blah blah blah. Hadn't heard sinced so assumed they'd given up. Heard recently another letter saying it was our "final warning" (even though we'd already recieved about three before this saying the same thing), and asking for a financial statement. DCBL are now finally agreeing to stop sending me the letters and sending them to my dad (we are at the same address, but i don't want any court action in my name because all i'd be telling the court when we get there is that it was not me etc). Been asked to fill in a slip with my signature and confirm the third party will now be "acting on my behalf". I must say I am annoyed because they have not provided an evelope to return so I have had to use a stamp and envelope. Is there any way I can bill them the charge of a stamp and an envelope or shall i save that for the court? 

When it does come to court how can we go about proving we did not recieve the original notice. I am seeing an increasing number of reports online of people getting sent the debt collectors letters as their first notice by these crooks. My dad thinks it will be enough to just tell them that we didn't get it and if they wanted proof they should have sent it via recorded delivery, which they should have but their is no legal onus. My dad is happy to pay the original invoice which would have been sent to us before the DCB letter, but which we never got. There were RM strikes at the time but all our other mail came fine.