Hartley Pensions In administration small commercial property SIPP

Pennywise

I've got a small commercial property in a Hartley Pensions SIPP.  Hartleys have gone into administration and we're getting very limited information about the future.  The last I heard was that they're intending to transfer all SIPPs to other providers by the end of March and there'll probably be fees charged to each SIPP to do that (the administrators tried to find a buyer but failed).

I'm wondering whether to buy the property personally out of the SIPP and then transfer the SIPP (which would then only consist of cash in the bank account) to another provider.  Presumably, with the SIPP not having commercial property anymore, it would be easier/cheaper to transfer and virtually any pension firm could accept the cash?  Am I right in thinking that?

I'm reluctant to let the administrators just transfer the SIPP to another provider as I originally had the SIPP with another provider (Guardian) who were forced to cease trading and the assets were transferred to Hartley.  I suspect if it's transferred from Hartley to another (random) pension provider then we may have this problem again in a few years if the new provider also goes under.

Rather than buying the property personally, anyone got any recommendations for a commercial SIPP provider who is more reputable and likely to stay in business, with reasonable fees?  Most bigger providers have very high charges which don't make sense for such a small, low value commercial property.

JoeCrystal

Pennywise said:

Rather than buying the property personally, anyone got any recommendations for a commercial SIPP provider who is more reputable and likely to stay in business, with reasonable fees?  Most bigger providers have very high charges which don't make sense for such a small, low value commercial property.

Have you considered going for more significant providers, as they are more reputable and likely to stay in business? You will have to pay for the privileges by paying high fees of c. It is, after all, a very niche area of the SIPPs.

shortseller09

Have a look at Investacc's Minerva SIPP.

Pennywise

shortseller09 said:

Have a look at Investacc's Minerva SIPP.

Yes, I've been looking at Minerva, seems the only viable option as the commercial property value is only £50k, so annual fees of £1k or more negate the benefits of having the property in a pension.  What also puts me off transferring is two lots of solicitors fees, property valuation fee and exit fees from Hartley.  Could easily cost £5k just to do the transfer.

When Hartley took it over (from Guardian), there were no transfer fees, no solicitors, no valuation, etc., as Hartley "bought" the Guardian business.  This time, according to the receivers of Hartley, there's no one interested in buying the "pensions book" as a whole, so there'll be transfers of blocks of clients, which WILL incur the usual transfer fees etc. solicitor costs, valuation required, etc., so I'm thinking I'm better to find an alternative provider myself so at least I have control of costs rather than them being forced onto me if it ends up one of the large, expensive pension firms that takes the scheme over.

I'm seriously thinking of just buying the property personally.  The costs are the same, i.e. valuation, legal for buyer and seller, etc., and it means I'll not need a commercial property SIPP at all.  Presumably once sold, I can transfer the funds (cash) into any personal pension provider.

Pennywise

JoeCrystal said:

Pennywise said:

Rather than buying the property personally, anyone got any recommendations for a commercial SIPP provider who is more reputable and likely to stay in business, with reasonable fees?  Most bigger providers have very high charges which don't make sense for such a small, low value commercial property.

Have you considered going for more significant providers, as they are more reputable and likely to stay in business? You will have to pay for the privileges by paying high fees of c. It is, after all, a very niche area of the SIPPs.

Yes, but costs aren't viable as the commercial property is only valued at £50k.  Most also seem to want a pretty hefty one off fee as well as higher annual fees.  It negates the benefits of having the property in a SIPP.

Pennywise

Just an update.  Apparently the financial services compensation scheme has now agreed to pay compensation for the huge "admin and exit fee" proposed by the liquidators to transfer the SIPPS to a new provider, so that's good news for Guardian/Hartley SIPP holders who've been stuck in limbo and prevented from transferring to new providers for the past 18 months.  Not yet clear whether all SIPP holders will be moved "en masse" to a new provider automatically or whether we'll be free to choose our own.  It looks like an end is in sight to this fiasco.