Wise Parking outside QEH Woolwich

SIADH

I wonder if anyone would be able to help here.

I parked outside QEH Woolwich (in Meridian Sports and Social Club car park). On arrival there is a notice board (see picture), I read it as permit holders can park any time, and the public needs to pay between 1700 and 0000 (Mon - Fri) and 0000-2359 ( Sat-Sun) ie no payment for the public until 1700 Mon-Fri. I wasn't sure about this board so I decided to pay (to be on the safe side) with the location code displayed using the app. The app though informed me that I did not need to pay at that time (which went along with how I understood the board). I arrived before 0800 and left at 1630, and to my surprise, I received a PCN informing me that I did not pay for the parking.

In my appeal, I explained what the board was advising on parking rules as well as the fact that the app with their location code did not allow me to pay. As it often happens, I just got back a template response, no acknowledgement that the app did not work and absolute nonsense on what the board actually says (letter text attached below), they suggest that the board says that parking is for permit holders ONLY (I could not see this on the board) and also that public pays after 1700.

Any suggestions on how I should proceed from here? They suggest I can appeal to the IAS but I read somewhere that the success rate is very low.

Site: Meridian Sports and Social Club Issue date: [redacted]
[redacted]
Thank you for your appeal received on [redacted] regarding the above detailed Parking Charge Notice. We have reviewed the case and considered the comments that you have made. This appeal has been considered in conjunction with the evidence gathered by our ANPR cameras. Our records show that the notice was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking.
All signage on site states you should Pay on entry using PayByPhone - the details are on each sign. This parking area is for staff permit holders only as the sign does display that payment is made after 17:00 for the public.
It is important for us to ensure that Parking Charge notices are only issued when they should be. As part of our quality checks we look to see if there are payments which have been made that can be allocated to vehicles where the registration may entered incorrectly.
As the terms of parking say you should enter your full, correct vehicle registration number, we have checked your registration number against our records. As we know simple errors can happen we checked for record matching the beginning of your registration, the middle, and the end all separately to see if we can identify a payment which has been made which is likely yours. There are none.
Consequently, after careful consideration your representation has been declined. It follows therefore, that as the Parking Charge Notice was correctly issued that the discounted amount of £60.00 remains outstanding. Please now make payment of £60.00. We must advise you that once the discounted settlement rate passes it will not be offered again.
Payments can be made online at www.paymypcn.info or by using the 24 hour automated telephone line at 0330 1649264.
If you are unable to pay online or by the telephone, you can post your payment by cheque or postal order made payable to Wise Parking Ltd to Parking Control Dept, PO BOX 7989, NN11 1HJ
Please ensure you write your Parking Charge Notice number clearly on the reverse. Please do not send cash through the post.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeal and have a number of options:

1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice within 14 days at the prevailing price of £60.00 by 24/02/2023. Please note after this date, the full charge will be due at £100.00 and must be paid by 10/03/2023. Payment can be made online by visiting www.paymypcn.info
2. Make an appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) within 21 days of this letter by visiting www.theias.org and use the parking charge notice and vehicle registration to access your appeal. Please be advised that if you choose to have independent arbitration of your case, and your appeal is declined, then the Parking Charge will be due at the full amount of £100.00
Yours sincerely,
The Appeals & Legal Department Wise Parking Ltd

Coupon-mad

I agree with you.  An ambiguous sign that doesn't tell the public what their obligations are outside of the payment hours.

They don't have a Legal Dept, haha! This newish PPC comes across as a one man band set up.

Have you seen the other Wise threads where the Director responds to people himself, and how we suggested people reply?

First thing is a formal complaint about that ambiguous sign, to the CEO of the NGS Trust and ask the Trust under FOI for the documents relating to the tender process and decision to appoint an inexperienced and very new parking firm which appears to be little more than a one man band with ambiguous signage designed to cause PCNs.  Ask how much the Trust pays to or receives from Wise and how on earth they were appointed to run sensitive Hospital parking?!

Fruitcake

C-m, as far as I can work out, this isn't a hospital car park, it's a sports and social club car park.

SIADH

Coupon-mad said:

I agree with you.  An ambiguous sign that doesn't tell the public what their obligations are outside of the payment hours.

They don't have a Legal Dept! It cones across as a one man band set up! Have you seen the other Wise threads where the Director responds to people himself, and how we suggested people reply?

First thing is a formal complaint about that ambiguous sign, to the CEO of the NGS Trust and ask the Trust under FOI for the documents relating to the tender process and decision to appoint an inexperienced and very new parking firm which appears to be a one man band with ambiguous signage designed to cause PCNs.  Ask how much the Trust pays to or receives from Wise and how on earth they were appointed to run sensitive Hospital parking?!

Thanks for your message. The car park is outside Hospital and is a Sports and social club's property/land (?). Looking at the state of the car park (potholes, washed off bay lines) they probably do not care about anything than profit; I don't think emailing the owner would bring any positive outcome, but perhaps worth trying.

Coupon-mad

Always worth trying.

You said it was just outside the Hospital so I kind of assumed it's owned by the NHS Trust as a staff social club?

Because Wise don't seem to run any car parks except the ones we've heard about which are all a certain NHS Trust.

B789

According to @Grizebeck it is advised to write a one liner appeal to POPLA, "The Parking Operator does not have a contract in its own name to issue PCNs at this site".

Apparently, no-so-Smart Parking doesn't have a contract in its own name with the landowner to issue PCNs. End of.

Coupon-mad

But that's for not-so-Smart.  This is not-so-Wise.

B789

Of course, you should still try Plan A and complain forcefully to PALS at the hospital asking them to get this PCN cancelled due to the pathetic ambiguity on the signs. Make sure you copy in the CEO of the Trust. Remind them that they are equally liable for the actions of their agents and if it ever gets to court (highly unlikely) they will be reminded of this.

Also, complain to your MP about this scam by a predatory firm which doesn't even have a valid contract with the NHS Trust to issue PCNs in its own name. This is simply a bottom-dwelling, ex-clamper trying to extort money from gullible victims.

Not-so-Smart Parking will probably withdraw before POPLA as they will not want to lose the fee they have to pay to apply for a POPLA code to give to you.  

Of course, if I'm wrong, this is still 100% defendable.

Coupon-mad

Not-so-Wise Parking.  This isn't Smart.

B789

My bad... not-so-Wise or not-so-Smart. It can get very confusing. Still, a winnable case whichever way you look at it.

SIADH

B789 said:

My bad... not-so-Wise or not-so-Smart. It can get very confusing. Still, a winnable case whichever way you look at it.

It looks winnable to me, but my concern is IAS that they advised, with their unexpected decisions sometimes...