HM Land Registry Documents Deeds Query

Hello,

Downloaded the Deeds from HM Land Registry for a Freehold House. Shows 2 registered owners who are not in any relationship with each other.

Under Section B of the Deeds Titled Proprietorship Register it shows the following: 

RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor

of the registered estate (except a trust

corporation) under which capital money arises is to

be registered unless authorised by an order of the

court.

Does this mean the 2 owners are 'Joint Tenants' or 'Tenants in Common'?

Tenants in Common means if one of the owner dies then other owner still only has 50% ownership and does not automatically take over the other 50% to make it 100% full ownership?

Cheers,

«1

Comments

  • peb
    peb Posts: 1,680
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    Tenants in common.  Could be any percentage ownership.  And yes, share goes as per will.
  • bery_451
    bery_451 Posts: 1,780
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    peb said:
    Tenants in common.  Could be any percentage ownership.  And yes, share goes as per will.
    Okay on deeds it shows percentage? Like for example 2 owners get 50% each, 4 owners get 25% each, 3 owners get 33% each or percentage only in quarters 25's only?

    When getting a joint mortgage or clearing the mortgage with somebody or partner, then can you specify whether you want 'Joint Tenants' or 'Tenants in Common' when applying for a mortgage?

    Lastly to clarify, the owners owns half of this house and owns fully another house locally, can this owner have 2 separate wills or 1 will only? Current this takes it over the £325k Inheritance Tax Threshold for this 1 owner, this means the Beneficiaries named on the will/wills have to pay 40% Tax?

    Cheers,
  • peb
    peb Posts: 1,680
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    1. Deeds being the title register does not show percentage.  There could be a declaration of trust.   It could have been on the initial transfer. 

    ,2. Joint ownership is decided on purchase/acquisition.   Not in getting a mortgage

    3 no idea. You need tax advice 
  • bery_451
    bery_451 Posts: 1,780
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    Forumite
    peb said:
    1. Deeds being the title register does not show percentage.  There could be a declaration of trust.   It could have been on the initial transfer. 

    ,2. Joint ownership is decided on purchase/acquisition.   Not in getting a mortgage

    3 no idea. You need tax advice 

    1. Where do I obtain this Transfer Document?

    2. Okay so its decided when Mortgage is cleared off?

  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 5,738
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Organisation Representative
    bery_451 said:

    Hello,

    Downloaded the Deeds from HM Land Registry for a Freehold House. Shows 2 registered owners who are not in any relationship with each other.

    Under Section B of the Deeds Titled Proprietorship Register it shows the following: 

    RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor

    of the registered estate (except a trust

    corporation) under which capital money arises is to

    be registered unless authorised by an order of the

    court.

    Does this mean the 2 owners are 'Joint Tenants' or 'Tenants in Common'?

    Tenants in Common means if one of the owner dies then other owner still only has 50% ownership and does not automatically take over the other 50% to make it 100% full ownership?

    Cheers,

    The restriction is a form A restriction. It is applied for usually when joint owners register their purchase/ownership. But it can be applied for at any time although rarely on a mortgage application. More likely when registering joint ownership or separately for example when wills are drawn up and/or you sever your joint tenancy. 
    Whilst it is often seen as defining that they are tenants in common that is not the case as you can have a trust, wills and more that split the beneficial ownership but no form A restriction on the register. The term tenants in common is never referred to on the land register.
    If you want a copy of the Transfer you can apply by post for a copy 
    https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to [email protected] This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • bery_451
    bery_451 Posts: 1,780
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    bery_451 said:

    Hello,

    Downloaded the Deeds from HM Land Registry for a Freehold House. Shows 2 registered owners who are not in any relationship with each other.

    Under Section B of the Deeds Titled Proprietorship Register it shows the following: 

    RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor

    of the registered estate (except a trust

    corporation) under which capital money arises is to

    be registered unless authorised by an order of the

    court.

    Does this mean the 2 owners are 'Joint Tenants' or 'Tenants in Common'?

    Tenants in Common means if one of the owner dies then other owner still only has 50% ownership and does not automatically take over the other 50% to make it 100% full ownership?

    Cheers,

    The restriction is a form A restriction. It is applied for usually when joint owners register their purchase/ownership. But it can be applied for at any time although rarely on a mortgage application. More likely when registering joint ownership or separately for example when wills are drawn up and/or you sever your joint tenancy. 
    Whilst it is often seen as defining that they are tenants in common that is not the case as you can have a trust, wills and more that split the beneficial ownership but no form A restriction on the register. The term tenants in common is never referred to on the land register.
    If you want a copy of the Transfer you can apply by post for a copy 
    https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds
    Apologies for the confusion, Transfer & Deeds are the same thing or separate? The deeds are already downloaded off the ;gov site, and if they are the same then where do I look at on the Deeds?

    There's no recall of a Trust being setup, from this shall I assume it is Tenants in Common?

    Yes another general query that I have is 40% Inheritance Tax over £325k, is it any separate estate value that is above £325k is taxed or the 40% off of £325k is taxed? For example if estate is worth £326k then do I pay 40% tax on the £1000 difference or 40% tax on 326k?
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 5,738
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Organisation Representative
    bery_451 said:
    bery_451 said:

    Hello,

    Downloaded the Deeds from HM Land Registry for a Freehold House. Shows 2 registered owners who are not in any relationship with each other.

    Under Section B of the Deeds Titled Proprietorship Register it shows the following: 

    RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor

    of the registered estate (except a trust

    corporation) under which capital money arises is to

    be registered unless authorised by an order of the

    court.

    Does this mean the 2 owners are 'Joint Tenants' or 'Tenants in Common'?

    Tenants in Common means if one of the owner dies then other owner still only has 50% ownership and does not automatically take over the other 50% to make it 100% full ownership?

    Cheers,

    The restriction is a form A restriction. It is applied for usually when joint owners register their purchase/ownership. But it can be applied for at any time although rarely on a mortgage application. More likely when registering joint ownership or separately for example when wills are drawn up and/or you sever your joint tenancy. 
    Whilst it is often seen as defining that they are tenants in common that is not the case as you can have a trust, wills and more that split the beneficial ownership but no form A restriction on the register. The term tenants in common is never referred to on the land register.
    If you want a copy of the Transfer you can apply by post for a copy 
    https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds
    Apologies for the confusion, Transfer & Deeds are the same thing or separate? The deeds are already downloaded off the ;gov site, and if they are the same then where do I look at on the Deeds?

    There's no recall of a Trust being setup, from this shall I assume it is Tenants in Common?

    Yes another general query that I have is 40% Inheritance Tax over £325k, is it any separate estate value that is above £325k is taxed or the 40% off of £325k is taxed? For example if estate is worth £326k then do I pay 40% tax on the £1000 difference or 40% tax on 326k?
    All depends on the user as to what they are referring to really. 
    Before registration you had a set of deeds that proved title 
    Once registered we create a register and title plan and they replace the set of deeds and are then used to prove title. Some refer to them as the title deeds and both are available on GOV.UK 
    A register may also refer to deeds as being ‘filed’ and there will also be the documents submitted when updating a register for example a Transfer re sale/purchase. Those deeds/documents are available by post, not online. 
    So if you want a copy of the Transfer to see what it included re shares/trust info or otherwise then you’d apply by post using form OC2 and a £7 fee as per the linked guidance. 
    Others will have to help re your tax Qs 
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to [email protected] This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • bery_451
    bery_451 Posts: 1,780
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    bery_451 said:
    bery_451 said:

    Hello,

    Downloaded the Deeds from HM Land Registry for a Freehold House. Shows 2 registered owners who are not in any relationship with each other.

    Under Section B of the Deeds Titled Proprietorship Register it shows the following: 

    RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor

    of the registered estate (except a trust

    corporation) under which capital money arises is to

    be registered unless authorised by an order of the

    court.

    Does this mean the 2 owners are 'Joint Tenants' or 'Tenants in Common'?

    Tenants in Common means if one of the owner dies then other owner still only has 50% ownership and does not automatically take over the other 50% to make it 100% full ownership?

    Cheers,

    The restriction is a form A restriction. It is applied for usually when joint owners register their purchase/ownership. But it can be applied for at any time although rarely on a mortgage application. More likely when registering joint ownership or separately for example when wills are drawn up and/or you sever your joint tenancy. 
    Whilst it is often seen as defining that they are tenants in common that is not the case as you can have a trust, wills and more that split the beneficial ownership but no form A restriction on the register. The term tenants in common is never referred to on the land register.
    If you want a copy of the Transfer you can apply by post for a copy 
    https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds
    Apologies for the confusion, Transfer & Deeds are the same thing or separate? The deeds are already downloaded off the ;gov site, and if they are the same then where do I look at on the Deeds?

    There's no recall of a Trust being setup, from this shall I assume it is Tenants in Common?

    Yes another general query that I have is 40% Inheritance Tax over £325k, is it any separate estate value that is above £325k is taxed or the 40% off of £325k is taxed? For example if estate is worth £326k then do I pay 40% tax on the £1000 difference or 40% tax on 326k?
    All depends on the user as to what they are referring to really. 
    Before registration you had a set of deeds that proved title 
    Once registered we create a register and title plan and they replace the set of deeds and are then used to prove title. Some refer to them as the title deeds and both are available on GOV.UK 
    A register may also refer to deeds as being ‘filed’ and there will also be the documents submitted when updating a register for example a Transfer re sale/purchase. Those deeds/documents are available by post, not online. 
    So if you want a copy of the Transfer to see what it included re shares/trust info or otherwise then you’d apply by post using form OC2 and a £7 fee as per the linked guidance. 
    Others will have to help re your tax Qs 

    Okay just to confirm the £3 Online version of the Deeds off the .Gov site does not contain all the info and data and to get this extra you have to pay £7 for the Official Paper version of the Deeds that is posted that has the extra info & data?

    If so HM Land Registry should clearly state this on the .Gov site before a customer completes online checkout otherwise the customer wasted £3.
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 5,738
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Organisation Representative
    bery_451 said:
    bery_451 said:
    bery_451 said:

    Hello,

    Downloaded the Deeds from HM Land Registry for a Freehold House. Shows 2 registered owners who are not in any relationship with each other.

    Under Section B of the Deeds Titled Proprietorship Register it shows the following: 

    RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor

    of the registered estate (except a trust

    corporation) under which capital money arises is to

    be registered unless authorised by an order of the

    court.

    Does this mean the 2 owners are 'Joint Tenants' or 'Tenants in Common'?

    Tenants in Common means if one of the owner dies then other owner still only has 50% ownership and does not automatically take over the other 50% to make it 100% full ownership?

    Cheers,

    The restriction is a form A restriction. It is applied for usually when joint owners register their purchase/ownership. But it can be applied for at any time although rarely on a mortgage application. More likely when registering joint ownership or separately for example when wills are drawn up and/or you sever your joint tenancy. 
    Whilst it is often seen as defining that they are tenants in common that is not the case as you can have a trust, wills and more that split the beneficial ownership but no form A restriction on the register. The term tenants in common is never referred to on the land register.
    If you want a copy of the Transfer you can apply by post for a copy 
    https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds
    Apologies for the confusion, Transfer & Deeds are the same thing or separate? The deeds are already downloaded off the ;gov site, and if they are the same then where do I look at on the Deeds?

    There's no recall of a Trust being setup, from this shall I assume it is Tenants in Common?

    Yes another general query that I have is 40% Inheritance Tax over £325k, is it any separate estate value that is above £325k is taxed or the 40% off of £325k is taxed? For example if estate is worth £326k then do I pay 40% tax on the £1000 difference or 40% tax on 326k?
    All depends on the user as to what they are referring to really. 
    Before registration you had a set of deeds that proved title 
    Once registered we create a register and title plan and they replace the set of deeds and are then used to prove title. Some refer to them as the title deeds and both are available on GOV.UK 
    A register may also refer to deeds as being ‘filed’ and there will also be the documents submitted when updating a register for example a Transfer re sale/purchase. Those deeds/documents are available by post, not online. 
    So if you want a copy of the Transfer to see what it included re shares/trust info or otherwise then you’d apply by post using form OC2 and a £7 fee as per the linked guidance. 
    Others will have to help re your tax Qs 

    Okay just to confirm the £3 Online version of the Deeds off the .Gov site does not contain all the info and data and to get this extra you have to pay £7 for the Official Paper version of the Deeds that is posted that has the extra info & data?

    If so HM Land Registry should clearly state this on the .Gov site before a customer completes online checkout otherwise the customer wasted £3.
    That’s incorrect. The £3 is for say a copy of the register. That confirms the ownership, any charges and the price paid in most cases. They are the three things most users want
    IF the register refers to a ‘filed’ deed, and not all do, then you can apply for same but by post and for a fee. The same goes for say a Transfer used to change just the ownership and that may contain more information re how someone stated it was to be held. 

    All of this is explained online in our guidance. But many users go straight to the service and may not spot it. However you always have to check and confirm the register information before you apply for anything else as a) it’s important to ensure you are checking the right title and b) then you know IF there’s more you need
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to [email protected] This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • bery_451
    bery_451 Posts: 1,780
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    bery_451 said:
    bery_451 said:
    bery_451 said:

    Hello,

    Downloaded the Deeds from HM Land Registry for a Freehold House. Shows 2 registered owners who are not in any relationship with each other.

    Under Section B of the Deeds Titled Proprietorship Register it shows the following: 

    RESTRICTION: No disposition by a sole proprietor

    of the registered estate (except a trust

    corporation) under which capital money arises is to

    be registered unless authorised by an order of the

    court.

    Does this mean the 2 owners are 'Joint Tenants' or 'Tenants in Common'?

    Tenants in Common means if one of the owner dies then other owner still only has 50% ownership and does not automatically take over the other 50% to make it 100% full ownership?

    Cheers,

    The restriction is a form A restriction. It is applied for usually when joint owners register their purchase/ownership. But it can be applied for at any time although rarely on a mortgage application. More likely when registering joint ownership or separately for example when wills are drawn up and/or you sever your joint tenancy. 
    Whilst it is often seen as defining that they are tenants in common that is not the case as you can have a trust, wills and more that split the beneficial ownership but no form A restriction on the register. The term tenants in common is never referred to on the land register.
    If you want a copy of the Transfer you can apply by post for a copy 
    https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds
    Apologies for the confusion, Transfer & Deeds are the same thing or separate? The deeds are already downloaded off the ;gov site, and if they are the same then where do I look at on the Deeds?

    There's no recall of a Trust being setup, from this shall I assume it is Tenants in Common?

    Yes another general query that I have is 40% Inheritance Tax over £325k, is it any separate estate value that is above £325k is taxed or the 40% off of £325k is taxed? For example if estate is worth £326k then do I pay 40% tax on the £1000 difference or 40% tax on 326k?
    All depends on the user as to what they are referring to really. 
    Before registration you had a set of deeds that proved title 
    Once registered we create a register and title plan and they replace the set of deeds and are then used to prove title. Some refer to them as the title deeds and both are available on GOV.UK 
    A register may also refer to deeds as being ‘filed’ and there will also be the documents submitted when updating a register for example a Transfer re sale/purchase. Those deeds/documents are available by post, not online. 
    So if you want a copy of the Transfer to see what it included re shares/trust info or otherwise then you’d apply by post using form OC2 and a £7 fee as per the linked guidance. 
    Others will have to help re your tax Qs 

    Okay just to confirm the £3 Online version of the Deeds off the .Gov site does not contain all the info and data and to get this extra you have to pay £7 for the Official Paper version of the Deeds that is posted that has the extra info & data?

    If so HM Land Registry should clearly state this on the .Gov site before a customer completes online checkout otherwise the customer wasted £3.
    That’s incorrect. The £3 is for say a copy of the register. That confirms the ownership, any charges and the price paid in most cases. They are the three things most users want
    IF the register refers to a ‘filed’ deed, and not all do, then you can apply for same but by post and for a fee. The same goes for say a Transfer used to change just the ownership and that may contain more information re how someone stated it was to be held. 

    All of this is explained online in our guidance. But many users go straight to the service and may not spot it. However you always have to check and confirm the register information before you apply for anything else as a) it’s important to ensure you are checking the right title and b) then you know IF there’s more you need

    Basing on your reply that I am incorrect, Again to Confirm the £3 Deed online version off the .GOV contains all the same info and Data as the £7 paper posted official version of the Deeds?

    I'm just after simple yes or no answers.
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