My Letting Agents illegally switched my Gas Supplier, now I am dealing with Mafia SSE

HLeung

mac.d said:

HLeung said:

Thank you for your response. Octopus did not charge me gas from July 2020 onwards, they only took my meter readings, and my fixed monthly instalments went towards paying my electricity usage, which at some point when the steep increase started at Q4 2021, and when I approached Octopus in July 2022, the actual excess was only a few hundred pounds because the fixed amount was also paying for the increase. SSE is reluctant to accept that they had used estimated readings to calculate the bill and SSE refuses to honour back billing when I received nothing from them for 24 months. I had already raised a complaint to the energy ombudsman and also with the property ombudsman. The £200 goodwill is not sufficient to compensate the difference of what SSE charges me and what Octopus would charge me had I stayed with them. After all, it was the Lettings Agent who created the problem. They have the responsibility to resolve it. 

I agree with t0rt0ise, take out all the unnecessary 'noise' from your complaint (not being dismissive of it, just simplifying it!), the bottom line is you owe SSE for the period they have been your supplier. Your compensation route is with your letting agent, and you could challenge their £200 by showing that you will have to pay that (& possibly more) just to cover the costs of the increased prices with SSE, so they should cover that, and some more for the hassle they have caused you.

In saying that, you should have noticed much sooner than you did, no one is to blame other than yourself for it going on for so long. It is your energy bill, and therefore your responsibility to check on it.

Don't see why you can't use the back-billing rule to limit it to the last year though, if SSE haven't sent any bills to your address, that's not your fault.

I'd send a copy of your last Octopus bill showing the gas readings on it, and a photo of your gas meter showing today's readings to SSE, but saying you are using the back-billing rules to only be liable for the last year, and also provide meter readings from that date. Raise it as a formal complaint, request a switch back to Octopus and take it from there.

Hello Mac.d

Yes I understand and appreciate your point. In hindsight I should have been checking my bills more closely, instead of relying the regular email communications from Octopus telling me that my account is in credit ( which from my point of view, all was well as I had been with them for over 2 years by that point) and asking me to submit meter readings which I just followed the instructions and submit my readings to them as I had for the previous 2 years ( whilst Octopus website allows me to do so without churning out any errors even my gas is no longer with them)

SSE admitted that they were sending bills to the Letting Agent and then now told me that they have been billing me since July 2020. SSE just would not address the fact that I NEVER received any bill, even they did not have my full name and my contact details on their system before I contacted them in July 2022.

I see the point and I have an ACTUAL readings with Octopus dated between 16th Mar 2020 to 21st Nov 2021 recorded on Octopus system. I would not mind if SSE honour the ACTUAL readings and calculated and charged me the last 12 months of usage and the Letting agents compensate the differences of tariffs of the two suppliers. However SSE is reluctant to honour back billing and the Letting Agents are leaving me to deal with SSE. I had already raised formal complaints but SSE is ignoring all my points.

HLeung

[Deleted User] said:

Putting to one side, the tenant/letting agent relationship, this surely is nothing more than an Erroneous Transfer (ET) of Supply which is covered in Licence Conditions - unless I have missed a key point?

The principle when reversing an ET is that the consumer should be put back into the position that he/she was in had they not been the victim of an ET.

Hello Dolor, 

I agree with you and I had also spoken to the citizen advice. However the letting agent admitted their error but reluctant to do get this resolved. They claimed it's over 2 years and that the account is in my name now and there's nothing more they could do. 

Their apologies and £200 goodwill simply isn't sufficient to compensate all the headaches, time and stress that I had to deal with for the problem they created

[Deleted User]

In my earlier post, I ignored the tenant/lettering agent relationship. If the letting agent has been receiving bills from SSE addressed to them, then there is an argument that any monies due to SSE for energy used are the sole responsibility of the letting agent whose name is on the bill. Normally, the letting agent will have something in the agreement with the property owner that these costs can be recovered from future rental fees: it is the way that some properties are managed between tenants.

As a tenant, I would be looking very closely at the wording in my tenancy agreement.

MattMattMattUK

HLeung said:

[Deleted User] said:

Putting to one side, the tenant/letting agent relationship, this surely is nothing more than an Erroneous Transfer (ET) of Supply which is covered in Licence Conditions - unless I have missed a key point?

The principle when reversing an ET is that the consumer should be put back into the position that he/she was in had they not been the victim of an ET.

Hello Dolor, 

I agree with you and I had also spoken to the citizen advice. However the letting agent admitted their error but reluctant to do get this resolved. They claimed it's over 2 years and that the account is in my name now and there's nothing more they could do. 

When you say the letting agent "but reluctant to get this resolved", in reality there is not a huge amount that they can do at this point, the billing needs to be worked out between you and SSE and then your gas supply either left where it is or changed over to Octopus again if that is what you want to do. The time to deal with an erroneous transfer is when it happens in that respect two years later there is almost certainly nothing that they can do.

HLeung said:

Their apologies and £200 goodwill simply isn't sufficient to compensate all the headaches, time and stress that I had to deal with for the problem they created

I can see it might be mildly annoying to get resolved, but it should not take a huge amount of time, nor cause headaches and stress. £200 seems fairly reasonable and you are unlikely to get more going by another route unless you can prove that you were taken off an Octopus fix and put onto a more expensive SVR and then you can calculate the exact losses over the relevant period and you can demonstrate that they are more than the £200, but then you could only get the actual cost, not any goodwill gesture.

You want to get this sorted, you can either do that in a reasonable way, or kick up a fuss whilst doing it. Kicking up a fuss whilst trying to get it sorted will not help and may even hinder the process. 

HLeung

Keep_pedalling said:

You do owe SSE for the gas you used for the 12 months prior to them issuing you with the first bill, but anything prior to that should be covered by the back billing rules. So looking on the bright side you should get a free year of gas plus the £200 from the letting agent.

Thank you Keep_pedalling, however SSE is not honouring that. I have tried to reason with them. Hence I had to escalate to the ombudsman

HLeung

MattMattMattUK said:

HLeung said:

[Deleted User] said:

Putting to one side, the tenant/letting agent relationship, this surely is nothing more than an Erroneous Transfer (ET) of Supply which is covered in Licence Conditions - unless I have missed a key point?

The principle when reversing an ET is that the consumer should be put back into the position that he/she was in had they not been the victim of an ET.

Hello Dolor, 

I agree with you and I had also spoken to the citizen advice. However the letting agent admitted their error but reluctant to do get this resolved. They claimed it's over 2 years and that the account is in my name now and there's nothing more they could do. 

When you say the letting agent "but reluctant to get this resolved", in reality there is not a huge amount that they can do at this point, the billing needs to be worked out between you and SSE and then your gas supply either left where it is or changed over to Octopus again if that is what you want to do. The time to deal with an erroneous transfer is when it happens in that respect two years later there is almost certainly nothing that they can do.

HLeung said:

Their apologies and £200 goodwill simply isn't sufficient to compensate all the headaches, time and stress that I had to deal with for the problem they created

I can see it might be mildly annoying to get resolved, but it should not take a huge amount of time, nor cause headaches and stress. £200 seems fairly reasonable and you are unlikely to get more going by another route unless you can prove that you were taken off an Octopus fix and put onto a more expensive SVR and then you can calculate the exact losses over the relevant period and you can demonstrate that they are more than the £200, but then you could only get the actual cost, not any goodwill gesture.

You want to get this sorted, you can either do that in a reasonable way, or kick up a fuss whilst doing it. Kicking up a fuss whilst trying to get it sorted will not help and may even hinder the process. 

Hello MattMattMattUK,

yes I have checked with Octopus the tariffs I was at at the time of switch, I had compared the tariffs that SSE charges me in July 2020. There's marked difference, especially the daily standing charges, it was almost doubled with SSE. I had also gotten the most current tariffs for both suppliers, and the comparison shows SSE is still much higher than Octopus, had I stayed with Octopus under the same plan they would have offered me. When you add on the cumulative amount over a period of 30 months of continuous higher tariffs, the amount would have been more than £200 for certain. 

I had been patient with KFH and since on 3 occasions in October 2022, that they had confirmed they would reverse gas supplier to Octopus for me and put everything back in order. I trusted them they would deliver, but obviously they failed their promise. 

As with SSE, they had admitted that they were sending bills to the letting agents, they knew they didn't have my details on their system before, and they knew they were using estimated readings for all their bills, and they also knew that Octopus did not approve their reading at the switch. I filed a formal complaint, presenting with facts and figures, point by point and they have no interest to address my points but continue demanding payments and claimed that they had revised the bills accurately according to ACTUAL readings.... and now suggesting me to make a payment plan and install a smart meter. None of these are resolving the issue. 

HLeung

[Deleted User] said:

In my earlier post, I ignored the tenant/lettering agent relationship. If the letting agent has been receiving bills from SSE addressed to them, then there is an argument that any monies due to SSE for energy used are the sole responsibility of the letting agent whose name is on the bill. Normally, the letting agent will have something in the agreement with the property owner that these costs can be recovered from future rental fees: it is the way that some properties are managed between tenants.

As a tenant, I would be looking very closely at the wording in my tenancy agreement.

Hello Dolor

I have a standard AST and I have the right to choose my utilities suppliers. That's as far as I understood and that it is actually illegal for the landlord or the letting agent to change the tenant's supplier without notifications. In my case I was not notified. 

HLeung

pochase said:

You should have gotten information from Octopus that there is a switch request. That is way before a final bill. I would be very surprised if Octopus did not create a final bill for your gas account. Not necessary as a separate bill but they will have closed your gas account on one of the normal bills.

Did you not check your bills from Octopus for two years to see that you are no longer billed for gas?

I am not sure that back billing rules will apply here if SSE have billed you, but you just did not receive the bills. Back billing is about raising a bill for the first time. Also it is about bill shock, so if you never paid for your gas you can't be very shocked that you have to pay for it.

So you will have to pay for the gas that you used, and you have been offered the £200 compensation.

What needs to be done is to check at what meter reading Octopus closed your gas account and what is the opening reading at SSE. Also what is todays meter reading?

1500KWh of gas per year sounds extremely low to me. Are you not heating with gas?

As a last point, you might want to change the title of the thread or it might get deleted.  You are claiming here that SSE is a criminal organisation.

Hello Pochase,

As said, Octopus acknowledged that they did not send out a final bill because I still have my electricity supply with them. In deed the gas section on the bill did drop off afterwards, but as I also responded on another thread, I had been with Octopus over 2 years prior to the switch, I had been happy and satisfied with their tariffs. My account has always been in credit and since I was able to submit and input the gas readings as I had always done so, I just oversight and didn't think there was anything different. 

As far as I knew, I still had my account with Octopus so even receiving a bill from SSE was a shock to me. 

I accept that I would have to pay gas I used but the fact that I was forced to pay a much higher tariffs based on incorrect billing, that's the point I try to make. 

I do have the last reading with Octopus and I do have my current meter reading as I do my own reading. But the opening of SSE reading is an estimated number which is much lower than my last reading with Octopus. 

According to my current, taken on 18th Jan 2023,  ACTUAL reading (8442) against my last ACTUAL reading that I had submitted to Octopus on 13th Nov 2021 ( 8063), that covers across 14 months of usage, and the difference is 379kwh. 

Regards

pochase

A gas reading is not in KWh, it in in m3 and if you are unlucky in ft3.

So the difference of 379 units, is 4245KWh (m3) or 12013KWh (ft3). Can you please check your meter if it says ft3 or m3 on it? Best you post a picture.

Is one of your problems maybe that you are thinking in KWh instead of m3 when you look at the two suppliers?

Also if your usage is really this low, the £200 will already cover most of the cost of your gas.

MattMattMattUK

HLeung said:

MattMattMattUK said:

HLeung said:

[Deleted User] said:

Putting to one side, the tenant/letting agent relationship, this surely is nothing more than an Erroneous Transfer (ET) of Supply which is covered in Licence Conditions - unless I have missed a key point?

The principle when reversing an ET is that the consumer should be put back into the position that he/she was in had they not been the victim of an ET.

Hello Dolor, 

I agree with you and I had also spoken to the citizen advice. However the letting agent admitted their error but reluctant to do get this resolved. They claimed it's over 2 years and that the account is in my name now and there's nothing more they could do. 

When you say the letting agent "but reluctant to get this resolved", in reality there is not a huge amount that they can do at this point, the billing needs to be worked out between you and SSE and then your gas supply either left where it is or changed over to Octopus again if that is what you want to do. The time to deal with an erroneous transfer is when it happens in that respect two years later there is almost certainly nothing that they can do.

HLeung said:

Their apologies and £200 goodwill simply isn't sufficient to compensate all the headaches, time and stress that I had to deal with for the problem they created

I can see it might be mildly annoying to get resolved, but it should not take a huge amount of time, nor cause headaches and stress. £200 seems fairly reasonable and you are unlikely to get more going by another route unless you can prove that you were taken off an Octopus fix and put onto a more expensive SVR and then you can calculate the exact losses over the relevant period and you can demonstrate that they are more than the £200, but then you could only get the actual cost, not any goodwill gesture.

You want to get this sorted, you can either do that in a reasonable way, or kick up a fuss whilst doing it. Kicking up a fuss whilst trying to get it sorted will not help and may even hinder the process. 

Hello MattMattMattUK,

yes I have checked with Octopus the tariffs I was at at the time of switch, I had compared the tariffs that SSE charges me in July 2020. There's marked difference, especially the daily standing charges, it was almost doubled with SSE. I had also gotten the most current tariffs for both suppliers, and the comparison shows SSE is still much higher than Octopus, had I stayed with Octopus under the same plan they would have offered me. When you add on the cumulative amount over a period of 30 months of continuous higher tariffs, the amount would have been more than £200 for certain. 

It may have been higher in July 2020, it could have been during 2021, however as it currently stands both SSE and Octopus have near identical gas costs as they are both offering a cap compliant SVR so there is something wrong with whatever you are looking at now. Also it will not matter if you were on an SVR with both, only if they took you off a fix with Octopus and moved you onto SVR or a higher rate tariff with SSE, any potential savings after the end of the Octopus fix would be ignored as otherwise you would have moved to SVR anyway and both offered the standard capped SVR. You need to calculate the amount based on the energy you used during the remainder if your Octopus fix, if you were on SVR then it is not relevant at all.

HLeung said:

I had been patient with KFH and since on 3 occasions in October 2022, that they had confirmed they would reverse gas supplier to Octopus for me and put everything back in order. I trusted them they would deliver, but obviously they failed their promise. 

Who are KFH, the letting agent? If so then it is not within their power to correct an erroneous transfer, the only person who could have done that is you, at the time it was initiated and when Octopus would have emailed you.

HLeung said:

As with SSE, they had admitted that they were sending bills to the letting agents, they knew they didn't have my details on their system before, and they knew they were using estimated readings for all their bills, and they also knew that Octopus did not approve their reading at the switch. 

The thing is if the switch was initiated, not challenged or cancelled and they have used the details requested then they have done nothing wrong in actioning the switch, there is nothing wrong with using estimated readings either, although they should have attempted to establish an actual read a lot of that got messed up due to Covid. I do not understand what you mean by "they also knew that Octopus did not approve their reading at the switch", Octopus do not need to approve it?

HLeung said:
I filed a formal complaint, presenting with facts and figures, point by point and they have no interest to address my points but continue demanding payments and claimed that they had revised the bills accurately according to ACTUAL readings.... and now suggesting me to make a payment plan and install a smart meter. 

The problem is they are acting correctly, you used gas, they billed the details that they were instructed to, you are required to pay for that gas usage and that should be based on actual readings which is what they are now doing so there is not a complaint there. A smart meter will not solve that issue but you might as well have one installed (removes the need to submit readings and potential future benefits). 

HLeung said:
None of these are resolving the issue. 

It is not clear what the "issue" you want resolving actually is? I understand that you did not transfer away from Octopus, but you could transfer back now. After two years it cannot be reversed, but there is not reason you cannot transfer back yourself. You used gas and need to pay for it so that cannot be the issue either. If you want to have your gas account with Octopus again all you need to do is transfer it back and pay the bill to SSE. Is there some misunderstanding as to what you feel the actual issue is?