Victorian terrace survey

Noneforit999

mi-key said:

If it was done a long time ago, as the survey states, and there has been no movement or problems with upstairs, you can be 99% sure it's not going to cause a problem in the future.

That would be my viewpoint also.

Structural issues generally start to show fairly quickly, if something was done 20 years ago and there are no signs of any issues then its a fair assumption it was done properly at the time, paperwork or no paperwork.

It seems very unlikely someone who owns their own house would bodge something like removing a supporting wall without proper supports risking the house falling down whilst they are watching the TV. 

Any older house could well have work done without building regs. We have a part loft conversion done on ours, a supporting wall removed in the lounge and a chimney breast removal in the lounge. None of these have any paperwork that we could find but they were done 20-30 years ago or more and visibly there are no signs of issues so we decided its incredibly likely it was done properly.

user1977

Noneforit999 said:

mi-key said:

If it was done a long time ago, as the survey states, and there has been no movement or problems with upstairs, you can be 99% sure it's not going to cause a problem in the future.

Any older house could well have work done without building regs. 

And bear in mind the original construction would have been done before building regs even existed...

Yes, previous alterations might not be up to current standards, but the rest of the house won't be either!

FreeBear

user1977 said:

Noneforit999 said:

mi-key said:

If it was done a long time ago, as the survey states, and there has been no movement or problems with upstairs, you can be 99% sure it's not going to cause a problem in the future.

Any older house could well have work done without building regs. 

And bear in mind the original construction would have been done before building regs even existed...

Yes, previous alterations might not be up to current standards, but the rest of the house won't be either!

Building regulations have been around in one form or another since the Great Fire of London. However, the rules varied from area to area and were overseen/enforced piecemeal. 1875 saw the introduction of the Public Health Act which covered some aspects of buildings at a national level.

It wasn't until 1965 that building regulations as we know them today were introduced. The Building Act of 1984 brought about further reforms and are still being tweaked by way of statutory instruments and "approved documents" - The later being what most people refer to when quoting building regulations.

Alexandra2022

I may now get a structural engineer to take a look before exchange of contracts
But they have asked for a builder to do an opening up if required.
Is that usually at the cost of the current owner and would they be responsible for making right afterwards?
I'm prepared to pay for the structural engineer but it feels to me like the owner should be responsible for the opening / closing. Does anyone have experience of this?

FreeBear

I doubt very much that you would get the owner to agree to invasive inspections. And no, they would not be responsible for making good - That would be down to you.

AskAsk

when we bought our house, which is built in 1930s, the surveyor identified that the original wooden window frame had been removed in the living room window when the window was replaced with upvc windows.  he said although there was no sign of movement, the removal of the wooden frame may weaken the area above the window.  we would need to install a support, where redecoration would be needed to be certain.

we got a quote for the job and reduced the offer price by the quote value.  we have been at the house for nearly 5 years and have not needed to do the work.

you could therefore get a structural engineer to look to see if there is sign of movement and then negotiate the offer price without doing any work.  if i were the owner, i would not be happy with the buyer, opening up the wall to inspect, even if they were prepared to pay for the work and re-decoration as it would be disruptive and the buyer may end up not buying the property anyway, but i may be agreeable to a reduction in price to take into account the possibility of the work needed if the structural engineer report flagged up potential problems.

mi-key

Alexandra2022 said:

I may now get a structural engineer to take a look before exchange of contracts
But they have asked for a builder to do an opening up if required.
Is that usually at the cost of the current owner and would they be responsible for making right afterwards?
I'm prepared to pay for the structural engineer but it feels to me like the owner should be responsible for the opening / closing. Does anyone have experience of this?

There is very little chance the sellers will allow that, and even less they will pay for it. 

What would happen if it was opened up and then you pulled out and refused to pay for it to be put right? They would have to pay the costs before they could remarket the house.

You can get a structural engineer in to examine what they can and upstairs etc.. without disturbing anything, but your survey has already told you there is no sign of any movement or problems with it.

Really you have two options. 1) Buy the house and then get an engineer in to open it up for your peace of mind, or 2) look for another house  

Noneforit999

Alexandra2022 said:

I may now get a structural engineer to take a look before exchange of contracts
But they have asked for a builder to do an opening up if required.
Is that usually at the cost of the current owner and would they be responsible for making right afterwards?
I'm prepared to pay for the structural engineer but it feels to me like the owner should be responsible for the opening / closing. Does anyone have experience of this?

I am afraid you are mistaken in that belief. Assuming the vendor accepts the damage caused (which I doubt) then its entirely up to you to pay for the repair afterwards.

You have to be realistic here. The survey has already pointed out there is no signs of movement or other issues in regards to the work and it was likely done years, perhaps decades ago so personally I would just take the risk if it were me but its obviously down to how much money you are prepared to spend now.

You can't expect the vendor to fund this, it really isn't uncommon for load bearing walls to have been removed years ago and not have building control involved. Just contact the EA, advise you would like a structural engineer to look and have it opened up for inspection and would they be ok with it. If it were me, I would say no as I have no guarantee the repair afterwards is going to look good so why take a risk that I don't need to take?

The vendor may simply say no to invasive work so there is no point wasting money on a structural engineer etc before even asking the vendor if they would be ok with it.

Alexandra2022

Thanks for all the comments
Under the buildings risk section of the survey report it states
"I do not consider there are any risks to the property which should prevent your purchase. It is important you implement a regular scheme of maintenance and repair in order to maintain the overall fabric of the structure. However, an allowance should be given for;
E3: Internal walls - confirmation of adequate support where internal wall removed;

This seems slightly contrary to the prior comments about lack of any evidence of defects. Is it a normal disclaimer?

mi-key

Alexandra2022 said:

Thanks for all the comments
Under the buildings risk section of the survey report it states
"I do not consider there are any risks to the property which should prevent your purchase. It is important you implement a regular scheme of maintenance and repair in order to maintain the overall fabric of the structure. However, an allowance should be given for;
E3: Internal walls - confirmation of adequate support where internal wall removed;

This seems slightly contrary to the prior comments about lack of any evidence of defects. Is it a normal disclaimer?

Yes, they are just covering their side of it by saying if some problem occurs in the future, it looks fine as far as they can tell without it being fully investigated, so just keep more of an eye on that. 

Really most things in a survey are 'looks fine now, but keep an eye on it in the future as it may need fixing; which applies to pretty much everything in a house !