Cool head needed

Emily_Joy

Looking for an advise. The house went on the market some time in 2021 and was sold around January 2022; sale fall through - perhaps more than once. On a market again, I believe with the current agent, since November 2022.  We made a first offer - rejected. We made a second offer - stating that since the house was built in early 1800s, we would need a house condition survey done to have better understanding of the cost involved in running it and the work required to remedy some evident issues, like penetrating damp  The vendor told us he is not going to accept the offer if we think it might change after the survey (sigh). I certainly understand his viewpoint. We like the house and we budgeted roughly 35K for the work, but didn't disclose this to EA, we are not going to change our offer unless something major comes up, like a new roof needed/chimney is about to collapse, etc.

While I am trying to find somebody to do the survey, the estate agent keeps telling me that the house is still on a market, but if someone will come up with an "unconditional offer" the vendor will accept it... However, as far as I am aware this "unconditional offer" would not be binding! (We are in England.)  So, my question is: is it likely that the estate agent is bluffing? Should we write and say that our offer is not conditional? Should we just sit and wait for the survey?...

jonnydeppiwish!

Don’t worry about it at all, says it’s an unconditional offer and then offer less if the survey brings anything significant up.

Nothing is legally binding.

Edi81

The EA is talking rubbbish! 

mi-key

How have you budgeted £35K for work when you haven't had a survey done yet?  Have you offered £35K under asking because of this? 

Emily_Joy

mi-key said:

How have you budgeted £35K for work when you haven't had a survey done yet?  Have you offered £35K under asking because of this? 

Do not see a problem with using our own judgement. It is me who is going to live there, not a surveyor. I normally trust my own eyes more than someone who has no interest other than protecting himself from a court case. 

propertyrental

mi-key said:

How have you budgeted £35K for work when you haven't had a survey done yet?  Have you offered £35K under asking because of this? 

It's perfectly reasonable to view a property and decide it needs a new kitchen, bathroom, redecoration throughout and maybe even spot the old fashioned fuse box and assume a re-wire will be needed.

And then mentally budget, say, £35K. And offer on that basis.

If a survey later identifies further more serious/costly work is needed, it is reasonable to renegotiate the offer (or indeed, withdraw).

However if

The vendor told us he is not going to accept the offer if we think it might change after the survey (sigh). 

then assuming you believe him, it might be wise to save yourself the cost of the survey and walk away, unless you are happy to swallow any further costs identified.

There again, the vendor might be bluffing. After all, he wants a sale. And if your survey shows a serious defect in, say, the roof, well his next buyer is going to find that too and probably reduce their offer.....

Annisele

Emily_Joy said:

The vendor told us he is not going to accept the offer if we think it might change after the survey (sigh).

I suspect what the vendor is really doing is warning you that he won't consider himself honour bound to sell to you just because you've spent money on a survey/legals etc. If that's the case, then he won't consider himself bound until he's actually bound by law - in other words, once you get to exchange.

I might treat this one like a repossession in my head - meaning that I'd expect somebody could come along with a higher offer right up to the last minute, and I'd lose all the money I'd spent. (That's always the case with housebuying in England and Wales, but a lot of people consider gazumping and gazundering to be bad form.)

If prices are falling in your area, then the risk of the vendor pulling out is perhaps a little lower. But before I spent any money on this, I'd be trying to find out why the previous sales fell through - and I might run away if nobody would tell me. There are lots of good reasons for sales to fall through, but anything that suggests a serious problem with the house (eg it has subsidence) or the vendors (eg they're divorcing and only one of them wants to sell) would probably also have me running.

mi-key

propertyrental said:

mi-key said:

How have you budgeted £35K for work when you haven't had a survey done yet?  Have you offered £35K under asking because of this? 

It's perfectly reasonable to view a property and decide it needs a new kitchen, bathroom, redecoration throughout and maybe even spot the old fashioned fuse box and assume a re-wire will be needed.

And then mentally budget, say, £35K. And offer on that basis.

If a survey later identifies further more serious/costly work is needed, it is reasonable to renegotiate the offer (or indeed, withdraw).

Not really. The seller is listing the house valued on it's current condition, not what it would be worth if extensive work is done on it.  That is like saying it would cost £100K to put an extension on, so I will offer £100K less because it doesn't have one at the moment...

This is why I queried their survey as they don't know what work really needs doing on it, so reducing an offer based on prices to fix problems you are just guessing at is a bit unusual. 

Having read posts about other houses the OP has been offering on, they seem to be just looking for reasons to reduce prices without any real basis of costs, which isn't how it works. Show the seller a proper survey that shows the problems to back up your reduction, and they may be more agreeable, but just making a low offer based on some vague guesswork isn't very convincing.

 

Emily_Joy

mi-key said:

Not really. The seller is listing the house valued on it's current condition, not what it would be worth if extensive work is done on it.  That is like saying it would cost £100K to put an extension on, so I will offer £100K less because it doesn't have one at the moment...

I am sorry but I have to disagree. In 2019, someone bought a house on the outskirts of a town overlooking pretty rapeseed fields for about 425K. Comes 2021 and a developers logs in permission to build some 1000 houses on these fields. The house goes on the market. Despite strong opposition from the local population, permission is granted by in the end of 2022, the work is likely to start in half a year time. The house is still on the market with guide price 585K. 

mi-key

Emily_Joy said:

mi-key said:

Not really. The seller is listing the house valued on it's current condition, not what it would be worth if extensive work is done on it.  That is like saying it would cost £100K to put an extension on, so I will offer £100K less because it doesn't have one at the moment...

I am sorry but I have to disagree. In 2019, someone bought a house on the outskirts of a town overlooking pretty rapeseed fields for about 425K. Comes 2021 and a developers logs in permission to build some 1000 houses on these fields. The house goes on the market. Despite strong opposition from the local population, permission is granted by in the end of 2022, the work is likely to start in half a year time. The house is still on the market with guide price 585K. 

Not really sure how that is relevant being as it's a completely different sort of case? 

Emily_Joy

mi-key said:

Not really sure how that is relevant being as it's a completely different sort of case?

This example meant to illustrate the asking price is not always adequate. Somewhere else on these pages you pointed out to a buyer who was surprised by the fact that the property need rewiring that since the house was not on sale as "a 1960s house that was rewired" there is no reason the buyer can reduce his offer. I simply disagree with the statement that whoever was evaluating the house took all details into account. An ideal experienced buyer will probably have a list of things that needs checking, but many will miss something important here and there.