I don't even feel this is particularly harsh treatment. A glass half empty version of events would be that returning to work, taking leave almost immediately and never returning was a cynical ploy to grab a bit more cash out of the situation. I'm certainly not stating that was the case, but it could easily be argued that way, and having been on the 'opposite' side of this more than once in the past, it very much does happen. I don't feel past service gives anyone the right to get paid leave that wasn't accrued, but obviously there is potential for discretion if the employee and employer are on general good terms.
I don't even feel this is particularly harsh treatment. A glass half empty version of events would be that returning to work, taking leave almost immediately and never returning was a cynical ploy to grab a bit more cash out of the situation. I'm certainly not stating that was the case, but it could easily be argued that way, and having been on the 'opposite' side of this more than once in the past, it very much does happen. I don't feel past service gives anyone the right to get paid leave that wasn't accrued, but obviously there is potential for discretion if the employee and employer are on general good terms.
OP how much annual leave do you get per year? (After such long service I would expect it to be a few days over the legal requirement but not a given obviously)
What happened to your annual leave entitlement accrued when you were off sick? I can see this has been asked a few times but cannot see an answer.
Hi , From day one I got 34 days leave it doesn’t go up by service , lady years holidays and my sick pay ran out on the 27th of December , I returned on January and worked 4 days , Due to my sickness having ran out I requested holidays , After them I realised I couldn’t work on and handed in my notice , I’ve now been told cause I hadn’t worked enough days since start of year. They also wanted me to work 4 weeks notice, When I told them I wasn’t fit enough and would go on the sick unpaid , They told me they would rush it through right away . thus depriving me of accruing days during my sickness to offset what I need to pay. I’m just wanting to make this as uncomfortable as possible for them.
Ok thanks for reply , I can only state I’ve been to hospital had X-rays which showed up as severe degeneration of the right knee , My work are fully aware of this , But yes maybe taking 2 weeks off in a last ditch attempt to maybe keep my job could be seen as money grabbing .
thanks for all advice , onwards and upwards as they say 👍
As I stated, it does happen. With you being signed off for such a long time, I would have anticipated that you would have had quite a rigorous 'back to work' interview, possibly involving occupational health. These days, they are taken pretty seriously, ie they ought to have ascertained that your were fully able to work before duties began, and taken appropriate mitigation if you weren't. Usually you would need to have agreed that you were sufficiently recovered from all of the issues related to why you had been signed off for half a year. I don't know how the time lines fitted in with you going back to hospital and getting X rays, and agreeing upon returning that you were well enough to return to your duties, leaving after four days for a two week holiday, and deciding not to return.
Definitely being a people leader will have some influence on my interpretation of this scenario, but I felt like the thread would benefit with some balance from an employer perspective.
However, if you did not receive a robust 'back to work' interview, possibly some redress is in order.
You were signed off for six months. That period ended towards the end of December. Your leave year, I think you suggest, starts on 1st January.
Did you, before you went sick in June, use ALL your annual leave for 2022? If you did not, then it is still available to you now: even if they do not usually allow you to carry it forward, they cannot deny this.
That's a different question to taking leave that hadn't accrued, which the OP has categorically stated that he has done. They have not given any indication of how leave accrued whilst being signed off has been handled (it may have been paid). Though it sounds like the business has some shutdown time, with mandatory holiday periods.
That's a different question to taking leave that hadn't accrued, which the OP has categorically stated that he has done. They have not given any indication of how leave accrued whilst being signed off has been handled (it may have been paid). Though it sounds like the business has some shutdown time, with mandatory holiday periods.
I agree, he said he had been paid for leave he had not accrued. In his position, I'd be checking whether that information was correct.
What is troubling me most , is the two weeks I have took holiday , Is it annoying them that I hadn’t accrued them , They are so intent on having me return ?
That's totally normal. If you have taken more holiday than you have accrued then it's going to be deducted from your pay, just as if you have accrued more holiday that you've taken, it will be paid out. Why would expect to be paid for something you haven't earned?
You should check how much holiday you had, however, as you continue to accrue holiday while on sick leave and if you are unable to take it during the correct year due to being on long term sick, you are entitled to carry over any Statutory Leave (contractual leave may be different depending on your company's policies)
If you were off for the whole of the 6 months then you would have accrued holiday - if you work full time you would accrue 14 days leave in 6 months. You say that your sickness ran out on 27th Dec and you returned after the holidays, so some of that time may well have been used during that Christmas break, but you need to work out what you had accrued, to make sure that this is properly accounted for in your final pay.
However, if what you have said is correct, and you had used up the holiday you accrued last year and then took took weeks which you haven't accrued, then it's absolutely normal that you would have to pay that back.
Also, you specially asked your employer to agree to short notice , so it's a little unreasonable to then be annoyed that they have agreed it.
All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)
Replies
thanks for all advice , onwards and upwards as they say 👍
Definitely being a people leader will have some influence on my interpretation of this scenario, but I felt like the thread would benefit with some balance from an employer perspective.
However, if you did not receive a robust 'back to work' interview, possibly some redress is in order.
You were signed off for six months. That period ended towards the end of December. Your leave year, I think you suggest, starts on 1st January.
Did you, before you went sick in June, use ALL your annual leave for 2022? If you did not, then it is still available to you now: even if they do not usually allow you to carry it forward, they cannot deny this.
You should check how much holiday you had, however, as you continue to accrue holiday while on sick leave and if you are unable to take it during the correct year due to being on long term sick, you are entitled to carry over any Statutory Leave (contractual leave may be different depending on your company's policies)
If you were off for the whole of the 6 months then you would have accrued holiday - if you work full time you would accrue 14 days leave in 6 months. You say that your sickness ran out on 27th Dec and you returned after the holidays, so some of that time may well have been used during that Christmas break, but you need to work out what you had accrued, to make sure that this is properly accounted for in your final pay.
However, if what you have said is correct, and you had used up the holiday you accrued last year and then took took weeks which you haven't accrued, then it's absolutely normal that you would have to pay that back.
Also, you specially asked your employer to agree to short notice , so it's a little unreasonable to then be annoyed that they have agreed it.