How could i prove pet ownership in the courts?

Jmoo

So this ongoing saga about a cat we took in seven months ago. It's registered to us on the microchip (it was originally blank), we have the insurance, vets bills and vaccine certificates etc as well as medical history. We went through charities and the vets to take it in when it was poorly and pregnant. Nobody attempted to claim it until after six months. Now they've taken it in and kept her inside.

I'm aggreived we've spent more than £1,000 putting right this cat. And also frustrated the police won't act despite a paper trail of evidence we'd done everything we could to try to find the owners and care for her. The police claim we stole her!

I just wondered, other than the RSPCA who are still doing investigations but in no rush, if there was a cost-effective way through the courts.

I wondered if a small claims court could try to claim back some of the money? Would it help to decide who owns the cat?

I just want to make sure these irresponsible owners actually have some sort of reprocussions - they apparently have lost seven cats in the last year through negligence. 

Undervalued

Jmoo said:

So this ongoing saga about a cat we took in seven months ago. It's registered to us on the microchip (it was originally blank), we have the insurance, vets bills and vaccine certificates etc as well as medical history. We went through charities and the vets to take it in when it was poorly and pregnant. Nobody attempted to claim it until after six months. Now they've taken it in and kept her inside.

I'm aggreived we've spent more than £1,000 putting right this cat. And also frustrated the police won't act despite a paper trail of evidence we'd done everything we could to try to find the owners and care for her. The police claim we stole her!

I just wondered, other than the RSPCA who are still doing investigations but in no rush, if there was a cost-effective way through the courts.

I wondered if a small claims court could try to claim back some of the money? Would it help to decide who owns the cat?

I just want to make sure these irresponsible owners actually have some sort of reprocussions - they apparently have lost seven cats in the last year through negligence. 

Sorry, I understand your frustration but you are muddling several different issues together here.

Legally an animal is a "chattel" (i.e property) so your rights to ownership, or lack of them, are just the same as if you had found some other item in the street. You might have found, say, a radio that didn't work then spent money having it repaired. That doesn't give you the right to keep it if the original owner turns up. Nor can you make them pay for the repair as they didn't authorise it.

The owner of an animal has a legal obligation not to treat it cruelly but otherwise they can do what they like with it including destroying it (as long as it is done humanely) as they please.

If they have failed in their legal obligations then that is a criminal matter for the police. The RSPCA can investigate but they have no statutory powers (despite the uniforms!) and I think I am right in saying they no longer mount private prosecutions but pass any evidence on to the police and the CPS.

Theoretically you could mount a private prosecution yourself, if you have evidence of a crime, but the costs could be frightening. Also, the CPS have the power to take over any such prosecution, at their discretion, and discontinue it if they so please leaving you with the bill so far.

A vet is legally obliged to provide either emergency first aid or to put down a sick or injured animal, even if there is no one to pay the bill. You could simply have handed the cat to a vet or a recognised animal charity and walked away.

Laudable as I'm sure your intentions were I don't see that you have any legal claim.

Sorry. 

VyEu

Pets are indeed property.

If the first owner abandoned the cat then you arguably can say it's a stray, the owner gave up ownership and therefore it's yours now.

Theres no enough here to determine how likely that would be to succeed...but if it's been several months why does the owner want them back? They didn't have their chip in their name? Bit odd for a 'dedicated' pet owner. 

If you want to say it's yours, see a solicitor and set out your case as to how you found it, how you kept in caring for it, how you had no reason to believe there was an owner etc... That's your best bet based on the limited info here, but see a lawyer if you're being taken to court

tacpot12

If you have home insurance, check to see if you have legal expenses cover as part of it. If you do, call the Legal helpline (especially if the police or CPS want to prosecute you). 

sevenhills

VyEu said:

Pets are indeed property.

If the first owner abandoned the cat then you arguably can say it's a stray, the owner gave up ownership and therefore it's yours now.

Surely a cat that is lost, may appear abandoned?
The OP states that the cat was chipped, but it was blank. I would expect most cats not to be chipped at all.
Why chip a cat/dog and then not register an address?

Lavendyr

I'm genuinely amazed that the police have got involved in this - normally when the boot is on the other foot it's "a civil matter".

Knowing the background from your previous posts, I would fight them as far as you can on this. I don't think this is just about financial outlay but neglect. Have you veterinary reports from your visits? Notes of calls to RSPCA etc? From your description these people should not be allowed to own pets, but you will need to prove this unfortunately.

Brie

I can't add anything of value other than to say I'm glad the cat in question had you to look after it in a time of need.  I hope the current possessors do so well for it.

sheramber

Lavendyr said:

I'm genuinely amazed that the police have got involved in this - normally when the boot is on the other foot it's "a civil matter".

Knowing the background from your previous posts, I would fight them as far as you can on this. I don't think this is just about financial outlay but neglect. Have you veterinary reports from your visits? Notes of calls to RSPCA etc? From your description these people should not be allowed to own pets, but you will need to prove this unfortunately.

The  police are not involved

And also frustrated the police won't act despite a paper trail of evidence we'd done everything we could to try to find the owners and care for her. The police claim we stole her!

I think the OP wants to go to court to prove he can claim the cat back.

sheramber

This site linked below deals with stolen/lost pets but does state that ownership cases can  be dealt with by the Small Claims Court.

I rhink you would need to show evidence of the cat being abandoned such as information of reporting it to RSPCA and thier response, how long the previous owner wws absent, plus your evidence of vet treatment showing the condition of the cat when you took it to the vet.

The complication is that the original owner claims she arranged for someone to care for the car when she went away and it was that person who abandoned it, not her.


That court would be where you would try to claim your costs back.

 

https://www.petsbureau.co.uk/get-back-your-stolen-or-rehomed-pet/

Pet ownership cases usually go before the Small Claims Court, and the District Judge has the power to determine who is the rightful owner. Therefore some preparation is required by you as there is no single piece of evidence that can conclusively determine you as the pets owner. The judge would decide ownership based on the evidence provided:

Ms_Dee

sevenhills said:

VyEu said:

Pets are indeed property.

If the first owner abandoned the cat then you arguably can say it's a stray, the owner gave up ownership and therefore it's yours now.

Surely a cat that is lost, may appear abandoned?
The OP states that the cat was chipped, but it was blank. I would expect most cats not to be chipped at all.
Why chip a cat/dog and then not register an address?

I have always been told by rescues and vets that if a pet has no microchip or a non registered chip then the animal can be re-homed within 7 days. If they have a registered chip and they fail to get hold of the owners via the contact information on their chip then they have around a month to claim their animal before it can be re-homed.
I'd imagine the issue here is if it technically wasn't re-homed by a veterinary system, rescue/charity, but I don't know enough about that.

I would gather all your information, screenshots, date and time you got it checked for a chip etc. Before taking it further, the more evidence you have the more viable your case.

If you have contact with the owners, try and not be aggressive or say something that may see you in a bad light, as they could use it against you.

There is a little bit about it here: https://www.petlog.org.uk/pet-keeper/missing-stolen-or-in-a-dispute/
It does say that you should resolve it between yourselves, otherwise legal action is the way to go.


Best of Luck!

sevenhills

Ms_Dee said:

I have always been told by rescues and vets that if a pet has no microchip or a non registered chip then the animal can be re-homed within 7 days. If they have a registered chip and they fail to get hold of the owners via the contact information on their chip then they have around a month to claim their animal before it can be re-homed.

But surely 95%+ of cats come from domestic cat owners cats having kittens, not breeders, these owners would not chip the kittens.
So a caring owner would have chipped their kitten. So why unregistered?