Royal Mail conning customers or not

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

If Royal Mail suspended the guarantee it would maybe depend upon how the service was advised at the time you ordered it, currently online it looks like this:



I certainly think they should change that to remove reference to the timeframe during periods when the guarantee is suspended, but I haven't ever looked at a time when it was suspended so they may well have done so. 

Undervalued

RM used to offer consequential loss insurance as an optional extra for Special Delivery (or Registered as I think it was once called). So if you opted for that, in addition to getting your money back if it was late, you could claim for any quantifiable losses you suffered as a result. 

user1977

Undervalued said:

RM used to offer consequential loss insurance as an optional extra for Special Delivery (or Registered as I think it was once called). So if you opted for that, in addition to getting your money back if it was late, you could claim for any quantifiable losses you suffered as a result. 

How long ago was this? I would expect there to be severe limits if so (e.g. it's often used sending legal notices, but I wouldn't expect to be able to argue that their failure caused a multi-million pound deal to collapse...)

Undervalued

user1977 said:

Undervalued said:

RM used to offer consequential loss insurance as an optional extra for Special Delivery (or Registered as I think it was once called). So if you opted for that, in addition to getting your money back if it was late, you could claim for any quantifiable losses you suffered as a result. 

How long ago was this? I would expect there to be severe limits if so (e.g. it's often used sending legal notices, but I wouldn't expect to be able to argue that their failure caused a multi-million pound deal to collapse...)

When I used it actively and sometimes paid for consequential loss cover was c. 30 years ago. It was limited to, from memory, to £5K or £10K.

Most solicitors back then used a service called DX (?) rather than the post. It was available to some other businesses but not the general public. No idea what cover it provided but was considered very reliable.

user1977

Undervalued said:

user1977 said:

Undervalued said:

RM used to offer consequential loss insurance as an optional extra for Special Delivery (or Registered as I think it was once called). So if you opted for that, in addition to getting your money back if it was late, you could claim for any quantifiable losses you suffered as a result. 

How long ago was this? I would expect there to be severe limits if so (e.g. it's often used sending legal notices, but I wouldn't expect to be able to argue that their failure caused a multi-million pound deal to collapse...)

Most solicitors back then used a service called DX (?) rather than the post. It was available to some other businesses but not the general public. No idea what cover it provided but was considered very reliable.

Yes, DX is still used, though its normal service is only between parties who are both subscribers, so generally is only used between legal outfits. It doesn't cover consequential losses.

DullGreyGuy

user1977 said:

Undervalued said:

user1977 said:

Undervalued said:

RM used to offer consequential loss insurance as an optional extra for Special Delivery (or Registered as I think it was once called). So if you opted for that, in addition to getting your money back if it was late, you could claim for any quantifiable losses you suffered as a result. 

How long ago was this? I would expect there to be severe limits if so (e.g. it's often used sending legal notices, but I wouldn't expect to be able to argue that their failure caused a multi-million pound deal to collapse...)

Most solicitors back then used a service called DX (?) rather than the post. It was available to some other businesses but not the general public. No idea what cover it provided but was considered very reliable.

Yes, DX is still used, though its normal service is only between parties who are both subscribers, so generally is only used between legal outfits. It doesn't cover consequential losses.

Quasi legal firms (eg insurers) can also use DX

Undervalued said:

RM used to offer consequential loss insurance as an optional extra for Special Delivery (or Registered as I think it was once called). 

Registered Delivery is the old name for "Signed For" which is an untracked service until the point of delivery but bumps compensation for actual loss from £20 to £50. Dont think there has ever been an option to increase the limits on it unlike Special Delivery

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

If Royal Mail suspended the guarantee it would maybe depend upon how the service was advised at the time you ordered it, currently online it looks like this:



I certainly think they should change that to remove reference to the timeframe during periods when the guarantee is suspended, but I haven't ever looked at a time when it was suspended so they may well have done so. 

The "problem" is the potential disconnect between when it was purchased and when its used... most buying an express service will presumably be posting it fairly quickly after however some will buy it not for the speed but the insurance and so in theory could buy today but not drop it off to the post office for a week or more.

Looking at their website using the WayBackWhen machine there is a big yellow banner across the top of each page highlighting the strike action with a link for more info but the services page still calls it guaranteed by 1pm and still says "or your money back**". The stars only relate to the normal caveat about postcode restrictions, what a working day is etc

Undervalued

DullGreyGuy said:

user1977 said:

Undervalued said:

user1977 said:

Undervalued said:

RM used to offer consequential loss insurance as an optional extra for Special Delivery (or Registered as I think it was once called). So if you opted for that, in addition to getting your money back if it was late, you could claim for any quantifiable losses you suffered as a result. 

How long ago was this? I would expect there to be severe limits if so (e.g. it's often used sending legal notices, but I wouldn't expect to be able to argue that their failure caused a multi-million pound deal to collapse...)

Most solicitors back then used a service called DX (?) rather than the post. It was available to some other businesses but not the general public. No idea what cover it provided but was considered very reliable.

Yes, DX is still used, though its normal service is only between parties who are both subscribers, so generally is only used between legal outfits. It doesn't cover consequential losses.

Quasi legal firms (eg insurers) can also use DX

Undervalued said:

RM used to offer consequential loss insurance as an optional extra for Special Delivery (or Registered as I think it was once called). 

Registered Delivery is the old name for "Signed For" which is an untracked service until the point of delivery but bumps compensation for actual loss from £20 to £50. Dont think there has ever been an option to increase the limits on it unlike Special Delivery

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

If Royal Mail suspended the guarantee it would maybe depend upon how the service was advised at the time you ordered it, currently online it looks like this:



I certainly think they should change that to remove reference to the timeframe during periods when the guarantee is suspended, but I haven't ever looked at a time when it was suspended so they may well have done so. 

The "problem" is the potential disconnect between when it was purchased and when its used... most buying an express service will presumably be posting it fairly quickly after however some will buy it not for the speed but the insurance and so in theory could buy today but not drop it off to the post office for a week or more.

Looking at their website using the WayBackWhen machine there is a big yellow banner across the top of each page highlighting the strike action with a link for more info but the services page still calls it guaranteed by 1pm and still says "or your money back**". The stars only relate to the normal caveat about postcode restrictions, what a working day is etc

No, I don't think so. You are maybe thinking of "Recorded Delivery" back in the dim and distant past. It was a small extra charge over and above the normal postage. Registered was a premium service for quite a lot extra and even allowed posting of quite a significant amount of cash or jewellery. It needed a blue line drawn round the item and I think certain items required the special heavy duty envelopes that used to be sold for the purpose.

I'm showing my age now! 

user1977

Undervalued said:

DullGreyGuy said:

user1977 said:

Undervalued said:

user1977 said:

Undervalued said:

RM used to offer consequential loss insurance as an optional extra for Special Delivery (or Registered as I think it was once called). So if you opted for that, in addition to getting your money back if it was late, you could claim for any quantifiable losses you suffered as a result. 

How long ago was this? I would expect there to be severe limits if so (e.g. it's often used sending legal notices, but I wouldn't expect to be able to argue that their failure caused a multi-million pound deal to collapse...)

Most solicitors back then used a service called DX (?) rather than the post. It was available to some other businesses but not the general public. No idea what cover it provided but was considered very reliable.

Yes, DX is still used, though its normal service is only between parties who are both subscribers, so generally is only used between legal outfits. It doesn't cover consequential losses.

Quasi legal firms (eg insurers) can also use DX

Undervalued said:

RM used to offer consequential loss insurance as an optional extra for Special Delivery (or Registered as I think it was once called). 

Registered Delivery is the old name for "Signed For" which is an untracked service until the point of delivery but bumps compensation for actual loss from £20 to £50. Dont think there has ever been an option to increase the limits on it unlike Special Delivery

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

If Royal Mail suspended the guarantee it would maybe depend upon how the service was advised at the time you ordered it, currently online it looks like this:



I certainly think they should change that to remove reference to the timeframe during periods when the guarantee is suspended, but I haven't ever looked at a time when it was suspended so they may well have done so. 

The "problem" is the potential disconnect between when it was purchased and when its used... most buying an express service will presumably be posting it fairly quickly after however some will buy it not for the speed but the insurance and so in theory could buy today but not drop it off to the post office for a week or more.

Looking at their website using the WayBackWhen machine there is a big yellow banner across the top of each page highlighting the strike action with a link for more info but the services page still calls it guaranteed by 1pm and still says "or your money back**". The stars only relate to the normal caveat about postcode restrictions, what a working day is etc

No, I don't think so. You are maybe thinking of "Recorded Delivery" back in the dim and distant past. It was a small extra charge over and above the normal postage. Registered was a premium service for quite a lot extra and even allowed posting of quite a significant amount of cash or jewellery. It needed a blue line drawn round the item and I think certain items required the special heavy duty envelopes that used to be sold for the purpose.

I'm showing my age now! 

"Recorded Delivery" => "Signed For"

"Registered Delivery" => "Special Delivery"

Legally they are still referred to as "recorded" and "registered" no matter the current brand names for them.

mr_stripey

They aren't "conning" anyone. Perhaps, as others have pointed out, there is a misunderstanding about the "guaranteed" element of the wording. In reality of course, the RM nor anyone else can absolutely guarantee that they will deliver an item - there are a multitude of things outside of their control which could prevent this and they certainly aren't going to be on the hook for consequential "losses" due to the failed delivery.

Of course in most cases, stuff gets where it needs to be on time. If they don't achieve that, you can claim the postage cost back.

 

Money_Grabber13579

mr_stripey said:

Of course in most cases, stuff gets where it needs to be on time. If they don't achieve that, you can claim the postage cost back.

 

Except in this case, Royal Mail say you can’t.