PCN Charge - UKPC who use DRP 2018-2019 then DCB Legal 2022 !!

fanformartin

Hello, firstly thank you all who help and answer theses stressful events. I have been reading threads and the NEWBIES.

Threads referred to if it helps others:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6108153/suggested-template-defence-to-adapt-for-all-parking-charge-cases-where-they-add-false-admin-costs/p1
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79625681#Comment_79625681
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64350585/#Comment_64350585

I committed the sin of contacting DCB, DCBL, DRP and DRPL before finding the MSE threads. Sorry!

This is a bit of a tome now showing how long these things can be, and they dont go away! I have tried to give all the details.  I no longer work at the company and they have no records from this time or access to the iPermit system.

Summary
I was issued a ticket in Jul 2018, appealed, it was passed to DRP and DRP Legal until June 2019 then went dead. I assumed cancelled at last. Wrong !!
It appears UKPC or DRP have either sold or passed the "outstanding PCN's" on. Demands for payments of this PCN suddenly started up again end of July 2022 to my great surprise. They seem to wait for a bereavement in my family somehow! I now have a court claim.

My process reflects many others with a subtle difference. Our office has a main carpark requiring a permit to be display and an overflow carpark using electronic registration using and iPermit system. I was in the overflow but issued a ticket based on not display a valid permit.

What I don't know and am after advice on please is below:
1. The vehicle was not registered when the ticket was issued, I had not long arrived. The ticket has the same "Time First Seen" and "Issue time". No grace period has been allowed. I believe they do not know when I entered the carpark which was just before 15.00.
2. The ticket is issued on the premise of "Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit". I did have a permit displayed (not needed in overflow!) and the vehicle was registered, I only received confirmation from our facilities at 16.11 however. I cant find an equivalent example in threads.
3. There was no signage in the overflow carpark, only a sign in the main carpark facing the overflow stating a valid permit needs to be displayed. The overflow process was agreed with facilities for our company.
4. UKPC and DRP maintain it was not registered at time of issue. Without a grace period and with the wrong premis will this overturn the charge?
5.The original UKPC, DRP and DRPL letters have been lost when I left the company sadly. Missed when clearing my desk in Covid.
6. What is the view on a successful defence on this please?

========================================================================================================================
This is my defence, defence Para 2 and 3 only, the rest I haven't touched from the template.

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question.

3. The driver was an employee of Infor UK Ltd who had a number of available spaces in the car-park where the PCN was issued. The driver’s place of work was One Central Boulevard and the main carpark has a limited number of allocated spaces and an Overflow Plot E carpark.

3.1 The driver arrived mid-afternoon to work in his Infor office and parked in Overflow Plot E carpark.
 
3.2 Within minutes of arriving a PCN of £100 or £60, if paid within 14 days, was issued based on the vehicle being “Parked in a permit area without displaying a valid permit”
The vehicle did have a valid permit on clear display in the windscreen. This is visible on the dashboard in the parking attendants’ photograph of the PCN notice, reference UKPC3 included.

3.3 The PCN issued has the same ISSUE TIME as the TIME FIRST SEEN. The PCN process is invalid for this issue as the iPermit system process gives a reasonable period of time for registry from arrival.

3.4 Overflow Plot E required the use of an iPermit system, there was no signage in the car-park stating this.
There was no signage in the overflow carpark referring to parking restrictions or charges and the process in Plot E is not displayed.

3.5 The photograph of the UKPC sign is in the main carpark and not the Plot E Overflow carpark. The terms and conditions as displayed on the notice in the car park simply state “A valid parking permit must be clearly displayed at all times”. These clearly cannot be applicable to electronic registration.

3.6 The driver had registered the vehicle with the iPermit system after arrival and received an email confirmation from internal facilities of this.
The vehicle both had a valid permit on display and was registered in the iPermit system.

========================================================================================================================

2018
Jul 3 - PCN issued for £100, or £60 if paid in 14 days.
Aug 1 - Appealed online and UKPC acknowledged putting on hold for up to 35 days while reviewing. Appeal rejected by UKPC.
Sep DRP letter received on outstanding amount of £160.
Oct 5 I sent a letter stating no reply from UKPC and DRP re my appeal
Appeal information:
The Reason for Issue is stated as:
PARKED IN A PERMIT AREA WITHOUT DISPLAYING A VALID PERMIT

This is an incorrect statement as our vehicles are not required to display a permit in this area.

1.       In the overflow carpark Plot E we are not required to display a valid permit.
2.       The signs do not state the process to be used parking in the Overflow Plot E carpark relevant to our company
3.       The vehicle was parked in a legitimate space with the permit inside the car and visible on the dashboard. This is clearly seen in the picture from you representative.

Oct I actually tried to pay as personal events meant this was a distraction and didn't need the stress. I got a message from the www.paycharge.co.uk site Unable to find PCN and registration. Result, so I assumed it cancelled.
Dec I received an SMS from DRPL asking for payment and responded by email confirming I had received no reply to previous email and letters to UKPC or DRP.

2019
May After previous DRPL letters and with this hanging over me I found and contacted the DRBL solicitors, SCS-LAW, sent my reasons and was told they had no further instructions from their client. Verbally SCS said it doesn't look like it should proceed and undertook to confirm with DCBL. It ended up they just referred me back and nothing more was heard.

May 29 email from DRPL prompted as I contacted their solicitors after DRPL letters again. Stating they had liaised with their client who confirmed  the charge was issued because of not being registered on iPermit and it will stand. Case on hold until 12/6/2019 to make payment of £160.
June11 I sent email pointing out there was no grace period, the car was registered that afternoon and a valid permit was on display.
June 19 DRPL confirmed again they had reviewed with client, charge would stand and matter on hold until 3/07/2019 to allow me time to make payment.
NOTHING MORE HEARD UNTIL....2022

2022-23
Jul 29 Letter from DCBL, subject Unpaid Parking Charge2022 DRP sent a letter demanding payment, £160. Letters followed 19Aug, 20Sep, 14Oct, 21Nov..
I didn't reply to and ignored the ultimate Letter of Claim received 21Nov. Now know this was an error from MSE.
Jan 5 Court Claim received, issue date 29 Dec. I called DCBLegal after receiving the Court Claim and was told nothing they can do now its in court. Asking what details they had they stated nothing from previous communications with UKPC, DCB and DCBL passed on.
Court Claim is for £309.20. Climed=224.20, Court fee=35, Legal rep cost=50 
Jan 9 AOS, confirming defending, sent and acknowledged in MCOL.
Jan 30 Current status is Defence just being sent using the template to CCBAQ@justice.gov.uk
Jan 30 SAR posted to UKPC and seperate SAR notification to DCBL

That's it so far..................

Coupon-mad

Too much detail, almost none of which needs to go into a defence, and UKPC will discontinue before the hearing anyway.

Keep most of that for your WS.

Don't send an email to DCBL.

fanformartin

Hello and thanks for reading so promptly. So if I understand it section 3 should really be in the WS. Not quite sure what to put in defence then.

fanformartin

V2 defence.

3. The driver was an employee of xxxxxx and attending their place of work in the afternoon.

3.1 The PCN issued has the same ISSUE TIME as the TIME FIRST SEEN. The PCN process is invalid for this issue as the iPermit system process gives a period of time for registry from arrival.

3.2 Overflow Plot E required the use of an iPermit system, there was no signage in the car-park stating this. There was no signage in the overflow carpark referring to parking restrictions or charges and the process in Plot E is not displayed.

3.3 The driver had registered the vehicle with the iPermit system after arrival and received an email confirmation from internal facilities of this. The vehicle both had a valid permit on display and was registered in the iPermit system.

KeithP

fanformartin said:

I now have a court claim.

Jan 5 Court Claim received, issue date 29 Dec.
Jan 9 AOS, confirming defending, sent and acknowledged in MCOL.
Jan 30 Current status is Defence just being sent using the template to CCBAQ@justice.gov.uk

With a Claim Issue Date of 29th December, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 31st January 2023 to file your Defence.

That's tomorrow.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Coupon-mad

Looks good to me.

fanformartin

Thanks both, defence now filed, before 4pm, and acknowledgment received. I await the next stage!

fanformartin

Just a note I don't think needing reply.
Latest update is letter received from DCB Legal informing me their client intends to proceed. Kindly suggested their client may prepared to settle.
I am now waiting on the court to direct parties to file directions questionnaires apparently.
Latest WS pack I have downloaded.

fanformartin

Hello

Firstly may I thank most sincerely all the contributors to this forum for constantly and consistently replying to and helping with posts.

I now have a FORM N279 sent by DCBLegal and confirmed by the court. WIN WIN WIN WIN

This was received 3 days from the deadline date for documents to be received by the court from both parties!

The amount of advice on this forum has been truly invaluable to assisting in this result and the confidence to follow it all. This has really shown how much time UKPC and these PCN's can consume and the stress they cause for little effort on their part.

My first post shows all the detail from July 2018 to March 2023, too much probably!  If anyone is interested or if its useful I can list out the subsequent stages of my experience, Please let me know

BIG SIGH OF RELIEF, WHAT A SAGA

Not_A_Hope

Well done for not bowing to the pressure and seeing the scammers off. Be proud that chasing you has ultimately cost them

patient_dream

So, DCBL chickened out again ..... WELL DONE

UKPC = RUBBISH CASES
DRP = POWERLESS MONEY SCAMMERS
DCBL = THE FAMOUS DISCONTINUE LEGAL

No surprise to anyone, they ARE three of the council of representatives at the BPA.... THE CARTEL

Anyone spot the scam ..... DOES GOVERNMENT SPOT THE SCAM ???

Do tell your MP, and ask for an investigation by the SRA and the MoJ