Poor Advice from UK Power Networks

jimjames

Gerry1 said:

Try telling that to someone you charmingly call an 'idiot' because they lost a loved from a heart attack or stroke but they could have been saved by dialling 999 if only they'd known that a corded phone would have worked.

Surely someone with any hint of common sense would actually pick up their corded phone and try it first?

Gerry1

Astria said:

Gerry1 said:

Astria said:

Gerry1 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Gerry1 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

More than half of the old copper network has now been switched over, large chunks of what runs on copper only runs on copper from the cabinet so would lose power in a power cut.

Ofcom doesn't agree with you. My landline still works during a power cut.

Or they have just not got around to updating the information yet.

New builds have not had copper lines installed for some years now, everyone I know who it has been mentioned by has already been switched over, so a corded phone for them would be useless. Telling them it would work would be a false sense of security.

Obviously you didn't read the section that says:-

Ofcom rules mean providers must take all necessary measures to ensure their customers can call the emergency services during a power cut. So these companies will need to put additional protections in place as they move to new broadband-based call technology.

They already have - you can get a SIM card which works as a backup network in the case of a power cut, but only allows you to call the emergency services unless you pay extra for a full subscription. It even comes with backup battery.

If you already have a mobile phone there's no use in such a device, so they typically ask this first.

What use is a  SIM card (and the device it's in) when there's NO mobile signal from any network??  Yes, an IoM SIM card or whatever can roam to any network, but when there's no coverage it can't magic up a mobile network out of thin air !

I guess they think that in the case that you have no broadband and no cellular networks in your area then you are screwed. It's basically that unless you live somewhere where lack of signal is frequent enough to cause an issue, then they classify it as a non-issue.

As previously stated, normally I do have good signals from Three and EE, but they both fail the moment I have a power cut.  Any organisation saying that relying on mobile coverage for 999 (let alone ordinary calls) is the answer to a power failure knocking out a Digital Voice (VoIP) line is sadly misinformed.

Even BT have been forced to admit they got it wrong: they have had to pause their Digital Voice rollout.

Gerry1

jimjames said:

Gerry1 said:

Try telling that to someone you charmingly call an 'idiot' because they lost a loved from a heart attack or stroke but they could have been saved by dialling 999 if only they'd known that a corded phone would have worked.

Surely someone with any hint of common sense would actually pick up their corded phone and try it first?

Not every little old lady on the Priority Services Register is an anorak or has a degree in electronic engineering...

They may not have a corded phone, and if they've been told by UK Power Networks that their home phone won't work in a power cut why would they disbelieve it?  Not unreasonably, they would expect UKPN to know what they're talking about.

Similarly, even if you're not on the PSR, if someone's having a heart attack/stroke or your house is on fire, that's no time to be fumbling in the dark trying to find a corded phone and then trying to find a socket and plug it in.  Every second counts in an  emergency.

The correct advice should be for everyone on the Priority Services Register to leave a corded phone plugged in.

To be fair to UK Power Networks, they do say this on one obscure webpage, but contradict themselves everywhere else; they need to get it right and be consistent throughout.

doodling

Hi,

Gerry1 said:

jimjames said:

Gerry1 said:

Try telling that to someone you charmingly call an 'idiot' because they lost a loved from a heart attack or stroke but they could have been saved by dialling 999 if only they'd known that a corded phone would have worked.

Surely someone with any hint of common sense would actually pick up their corded phone and try it first?

Not every little old lady on the Priority Services Register is an anorak or has a degree in electronic engineering...

They may not have a corded phone, and if they've been told by UK Power Networks that their home phone won't work in a power cut why would they disbelieve it?  Not unreasonably, they would expect UKPN to know what they're talking about.

Similarly, even if you're not on the PSR, if someone's having a heart attack/stroke or your house is on fire, that's no time to be fumbling in the dark trying to find a corded phone and then trying to find a socket and plug it in.  Every second counts in an  emergency.

The correct advice should be for everyone on the Priority Services Register to leave a corded phone plugged in.

To be fair to UK Power Networks, they do say this on one obscure webpage, but contradict themselves everywhere else; they need to get it right and be consistent throughout.

Whilst that advice may be valid for this year and next, it is not valid for 2026 and beyond (it is very likely that no-one will have a traditional analogue phone line into which to plug a corded phone in 2026).

If I was UKPN I wouldn't be assuming that everyone had a corded phone and would be generalising my advice accordingly.  I would probably emphasise the need for people to take responsibility for their own communication needs and tell them to talk to their communication provider about whether their phone (of whatever type) would work in a power cut.

Any, more precise, advice is going to hit the problem this discussion illustrates which is that things are a lot less uniform than they were and that it is impossible to give generic advice 

Gerry1

@doodling

doodling said:

Hi,

Gerry1 said:

jimjames said:

Gerry1 said:

Try telling that to someone you charmingly call an 'idiot' because they lost a loved from a heart attack or stroke but they could have been saved by dialling 999 if only they'd known that a corded phone would have worked.

Surely someone with any hint of common sense would actually pick up their corded phone and try it first?

Not every little old lady on the Priority Services Register is an anorak or has a degree in electronic engineering...

They may not have a corded phone, and if they've been told by UK Power Networks that their home phone won't work in a power cut why would they disbelieve it?  Not unreasonably, they would expect UKPN to know what they're talking about.

Similarly, even if you're not on the PSR, if someone's having a heart attack/stroke or your house is on fire, that's no time to be fumbling in the dark trying to find a corded phone and then trying to find a socket and plug it in.  Every second counts in an  emergency.

The correct advice should be for everyone on the Priority Services Register to leave a corded phone plugged in.

To be fair to UK Power Networks, they do say this on one obscure webpage, but contradict themselves everywhere else; they need to get it right and be consistent throughout.

Whilst that advice may be valid for this year and next, it is not valid for 2026 and beyond (it is very likely that no-one will have a traditional analogue phone line into which to plug a corded phone in 2026).

I repeat:

Ofcom rules mean providers must take all necessary measures to ensure their customers can call the emergency services during a power cut. So these companies will need to put additional protections in place as they move to new broadband-based call technology.

doodling said:

Hi,

Gerry1 said:

jimjames said:

Gerry1 said:

Try telling that to someone you charmingly call an 'idiot' because they lost a loved from a heart attack or stroke but they could have been saved by dialling 999 if only they'd known that a corded phone would have worked.

Surely someone with any hint of common sense would actually pick up their corded phone and try it first?

Not every little old lady on the Priority Services Register is an anorak or has a degree in electronic engineering...

They may not have a corded phone, and if they've been told by UK Power Networks that their home phone won't work in a power cut why would they disbelieve it?  Not unreasonably, they would expect UKPN to know what they're talking about.

Similarly, even if you're not on the PSR, if someone's having a heart attack/stroke or your house is on fire, that's no time to be fumbling in the dark trying to find a corded phone and then trying to find a socket and plug it in.  Every second counts in an  emergency.

The correct advice should be for everyone on the Priority Services Register to leave a corded phone plugged in.

To be fair to UK Power Networks, they do say this on one obscure webpage, but contradict themselves everywhere else; they need to get it right and be consistent throughout.

If I was UKPN I wouldn't be assuming that everyone had a corded phone and would be generalising my advice accordingly.

They don't have to assume anything.  They can advise that existing non-DV landlines are likely to work during a power cut IF a corded phone is plugged in.  People can then make an informed choice whether to plug in a corded phone (or to acquire one if necessary).  Nothing difficult about that.

The advice relates to this winter.  It can be updated next winter if the DV rollout is resumed, but as I've said, Ofcom requires that customers can still call the emergency services during a power cut.

Spoonie_Turtle

People without a landline number may have a socket to plug a phone in but no service.  And people in areas where the service has been switched over won't have any service through their socket either.

There maybe should be a link to a page to explain the options clearly, but if people are unable to identify which situation applies to them it can also cause more confusion.  They cannot risk telling people corded phones will work when that's not the case for everyone.

doodling

Hi,

Gerry1 said:

@doodling

doodling said:

Hi,

Gerry1 said:

jimjames said:

Gerry1 said:

Try telling that to someone you charmingly call an 'idiot' because they lost a loved from a heart attack or stroke but they could have been saved by dialling 999 if only they'd known that a corded phone would have worked.

Surely someone with any hint of common sense would actually pick up their corded phone and try it first?

Not every little old lady on the Priority Services Register is an anorak or has a degree in electronic engineering...

They may not have a corded phone, and if they've been told by UK Power Networks that their home phone won't work in a power cut why would they disbelieve it?  Not unreasonably, they would expect UKPN to know what they're talking about.

Similarly, even if you're not on the PSR, if someone's having a heart attack/stroke or your house is on fire, that's no time to be fumbling in the dark trying to find a corded phone and then trying to find a socket and plug it in.  Every second counts in an  emergency.

The correct advice should be for everyone on the Priority Services Register to leave a corded phone plugged in.

To be fair to UK Power Networks, they do say this on one obscure webpage, but contradict themselves everywhere else; they need to get it right and be consistent throughout.

Whilst that advice may be valid for this year and next, it is not valid for 2026 and beyond (it is very likely that no-one will have a traditional analogue phone line into which to plug a corded phone in 2026).

I repeat:

Ofcom rules mean providers must take all necessary measures to ensure their customers can call the emergency services during a power cut. So these companies will need to put additional protections in place as they move to new broadband-based call technology.

Yes, they must.  That isn't stopping Openreach's plan, agreed with Ofcom, to shut down the analogue phone network at the end of 2025.  You will find that that many communications providers will ask whether customers have a mobile or other means of contacting the emergency services when selling VOIP services although some are currently using that in a decision as to whether they want people who require a "protection solution" as customers.  As transition to IP based services becomes more forced, I suspect that behaviour will be addressed by Ofcom (or they'll simply let all those customers move back to BT who will have a solution available by virtue of their USO, noting that in many cases the solution may be a cheap mobile phone).

doodling said:

Hi,

Gerry1 said:

jimjames said:

Gerry1 said:

Try telling that to someone you charmingly call an 'idiot' because they lost a loved from a heart attack or stroke but they could have been saved by dialling 999 if only they'd known that a corded phone would have worked.

Surely someone with any hint of common sense would actually pick up their corded phone and try it first?

Not every little old lady on the Priority Services Register is an anorak or has a degree in electronic engineering...

They may not have a corded phone, and if they've been told by UK Power Networks that their home phone won't work in a power cut why would they disbelieve it?  Not unreasonably, they would expect UKPN to know what they're talking about.

Similarly, even if you're not on the PSR, if someone's having a heart attack/stroke or your house is on fire, that's no time to be fumbling in the dark trying to find a corded phone and then trying to find a socket and plug it in.  Every second counts in an  emergency.

The correct advice should be for everyone on the Priority Services Register to leave a corded phone plugged in.

To be fair to UK Power Networks, they do say this on one obscure webpage, but contradict themselves everywhere else; they need to get it right and be consistent throughout.

If I was UKPN I wouldn't be assuming that everyone had a corded phone and would be generalising my advice accordingly.

They don't have to assume anything.  They can advise that existing non-DV landlines are likely to work during a power cut IF a corded phone is plugged in.  People can then make an informed choice whether to plug in a corded phone (or to acquire one if necessary).  Nothing difficult about that.

The advice relates to this winter.  It can be updated next winter if the DV rollout is resumed, but as I've said, Ofcom requires that customers can still call the emergency services during a power cut.

I believe that BT has restarted their DV rollout.  I have no idea what Talktalk, and all the other various CPs are doing, but as their supplier (Openreach) is terminating the contracts they have with them for analogue lines then one might hope that it is something.  All of this talk about what phone companies are doing is however largely irrelevant.

The simple fact is that there is no single piece of advice which can now be given to someone to ensure that they have a means of communication in a power cut and it is therefore not necessarily very helpful for an entity who doesn't know people's individual situations to try.  The only advice that UKPN can give is "please talk to your communication provider to find out how you might be able to maintain access to communications facilities in a power cut".  They could be even more helpful and say "if you are vulnerable, your supplier is required to make special provision to make sure that you have access to call the emergency services for power cuts of up to an hour in length" I suppose.

My concern about references to corded phones is that advice of this nature has a tendency to stick in people's heads for longer than its sell by date - it isn't going to help anyone when someone tries to make a call in a couple of years time and discovers that the corded phone they kept for emergencies has now stopped working.  The advice really only has one and a half winter's of validity left.

EssexHebridean

doodling said:

Hi,
<snip>
My concern about references to corded phones is that advice of this nature has a tendency to stick in people's heads for longer than its sell by date - it isn't going to help anyone when someone tries to make a call in a couple of years time and discovers that the corded phone they kept for emergencies has now stopped working.  The advice really only has one and a half winter's of validity left.

This is an important point IMO. It can be shown (albeit on a less critical level) by Martin's current frustration around the fact that his "It's always nicer in a (cash) ISA" line - a line which he's not used for several years now - is still being remembered and implemented by many people, leading to them getting far lower interest on savings than they should be getting! It's hard to get these sorts of messages out there in the first place, but even harder to erase them again when they cease to be useful, or accurate. 
.

jbuchanangb

During our most recent power cut, 20 September 2022, the very first thing I did was connect my corded phone instead of my DECT base station, and then dial 105. Which connected me to the wrong DNO, who had to transfer me to the emergency line of the right DNO. During the course of the outage I had to go out and about leaving my wife with the situation. The DNO identified that were on the PSR, and started texting me updates, using my mobile number on their files. They also phoned the landline. My wife had never heard that emergency phone ring before and couldn't work out where the noise was coming from! I think she did eventually pick up! The power was off for about 3 hours.

Gerry1

jbuchanangb said:

The power was off for about 3 hours.

If / when we get rota disconnections, the minimum length of a power cut will be three hours.  In its infinite wisdom, dozy Ofcom has specified a battery backup period for Digital Voice of only one hour.