Warranty claim - they have lost my item and are only offering refund not replacement

Aylesbury_Duck

marchesini46 said:

Alderbank said:

marchesini46 said:

Appreciate all the responses. I think my main gripe is with that DaKine have this warranty policy:

Dakine will replace, at its discretion, any products found to be defective within the scope of normal and appropriate utilization and still within the lifespan of the product.

It seems clear to me that it is at Dakine's discretion whether they will replace any products. What other interpretation can the OP put on this?

'Still within the lifespan of the product' is an interesting one. I have seen this before on similar warranties. The warrantor means that in the event of a claim they will take a replacement item from the production line or warehouse to replace the faulty one. If the product is no longer made then this would be frustrated, they can't supply what they haven't got. The warranty does say that they don't have to give any alternative.

In the OP's case Dakine is not backtracking on its policy, it is offering more than the warranty.

The moral is that unlike your consumer rights, which are the same for every contract, a manufacturer's warranty is whatever they want it to be, no more and no less.

I'll be clear that DaKine are unaware that any fault exists with their product because they never got the chance to inspect the goods due to the reseller losing the defective products.  I have no issue with DaKine and they may, as many have pointed out may say it wasn't not defective and I would be back where I started. However, that opportunity to get the case repaired or replaced was taken out of my hands due to the reseller losing my suitcase.  Granted, it may not be intentional but they are at fault as DPD have proof that the product was delivered.

My issue is with the reseller where I have been consistent that I have zero interest in a refund and only a repair or replacement would be acceptable. For all those who are saying that "it's a good offer for 6 year old goods", that is not the point as I have already stated I don't want a refund as I know I cannot purchase a suitcase for the refund amount.  I only returned the goods when the seller offered to get the goods inspected.  If this offer was not made, I would never have sent the suitcase and kept my suitcase and 'made do'.  

However, I seem to be in the minority as no-one seems to be acknowledging the fact that I cannot claim on the 10 year warranty rights on the the product due to a reseller error. 

For what it's worth, I have Burton snowboard bindings which must be 10 years old and the back binding broke.  I contacted Burton about getting them repaired and they sent me out two brand new hi-back bindings, all completely FOC. No receipts, proof of purchase or arguments where needed, just a manufacturer standing by their lifetime warranty. This opportunity to even have the conversation with DaKine has been taken away by the reseller losing my suitcase.

On the contrary, I acknowledge that as a fact, but the resolution proposed is a reasonable one, given that it complies with the manufacturer's warranty and exceeds your consumer rights.  And as pointed out a few posts ago, the manufacturer would only replace at their discretion, anyway.

jon81uk

marchesini46 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

marchesini46 said:
For what it's worth, I have Burton snowboard bindings which must be 10 years old and the back binding broke.  I contacted Burton about getting them repaired and they sent me out two brand new hi-back bindings, all completely FOC. No receipts, proof of purchase or arguments where needed, just a manufacturer standing by their lifetime warranty. This opportunity to even have the conversation with DaKine has been taken away by the reseller losing my suitcase.

If your claiming on a manufacturers warranty why send it via the retailer? Appreciate some manufacturer warranties are serviced via their country level distributor and/or "official" retailers.

There are good companies out there, they are often not the cheapest companies out there though and when your margins are so much higher its easier to be more generous in the after sales arena. 

In my world its the same, you'll find lots of stories of Hiscox Insurance going well beyond whats needed (hiring divers to look for a watch because it had sentimental value, paying out on expensive silk scarves just because the box had water damage etc) but then to get near identical cover for my home would be 4x the price with Hiscox than it is with Aviva. 

It was sent via the retailer by their request (reseller).  I took them at their word and assumed that the suitcase would be suitably insured - which is irrelevant anyway as DPD have already proved they are not at fault. I may be naive but was confident that DaKine would inspect the suitcase and see that it has not been used incorrectly.  That's why I almost always pay the extra for brand names as they (in my experience) stand by their products. By the reseller losing my product, they have taken away my opportunity to rectify the situation with the DaKine.  That is my whole point of this - not whether or not a refund is a 'good offer'.

But if it was suitably insured you’d still only get the same, a full refund of the purchase price. 

DullGreyGuy

jon81uk said:

marchesini46 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

marchesini46 said:
For what it's worth, I have Burton snowboard bindings which must be 10 years old and the back binding broke.  I contacted Burton about getting them repaired and they sent me out two brand new hi-back bindings, all completely FOC. No receipts, proof of purchase or arguments where needed, just a manufacturer standing by their lifetime warranty. This opportunity to even have the conversation with DaKine has been taken away by the reseller losing my suitcase.

If your claiming on a manufacturers warranty why send it via the retailer? Appreciate some manufacturer warranties are serviced via their country level distributor and/or "official" retailers.

There are good companies out there, they are often not the cheapest companies out there though and when your margins are so much higher its easier to be more generous in the after sales arena. 

In my world its the same, you'll find lots of stories of Hiscox Insurance going well beyond whats needed (hiring divers to look for a watch because it had sentimental value, paying out on expensive silk scarves just because the box had water damage etc) but then to get near identical cover for my home would be 4x the price with Hiscox than it is with Aviva. 

It was sent via the retailer by their request (reseller).  I took them at their word and assumed that the suitcase would be suitably insured - which is irrelevant anyway as DPD have already proved they are not at fault. I may be naive but was confident that DaKine would inspect the suitcase and see that it has not been used incorrectly.  That's why I almost always pay the extra for brand names as they (in my experience) stand by their products. By the reseller losing my product, they have taken away my opportunity to rectify the situation with the DaKine.  That is my whole point of this - not whether or not a refund is a 'good offer'.

But if it was suitably insured you’d still only get the same, a full refund of the purchase price. 

That would be questionable given what the courier lost was a faulty secondhand item... you could argue it was worth the retail price of a replacement given the warranty but you'd struggle because of the "discretion" the warranty allows the manufacturer 

jon81uk

DullGreyGuy said:

jon81uk said:

marchesini46 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

marchesini46 said:
For what it's worth, I have Burton snowboard bindings which must be 10 years old and the back binding broke.  I contacted Burton about getting them repaired and they sent me out two brand new hi-back bindings, all completely FOC. No receipts, proof of purchase or arguments where needed, just a manufacturer standing by their lifetime warranty. This opportunity to even have the conversation with DaKine has been taken away by the reseller losing my suitcase.

If your claiming on a manufacturers warranty why send it via the retailer? Appreciate some manufacturer warranties are serviced via their country level distributor and/or "official" retailers.

There are good companies out there, they are often not the cheapest companies out there though and when your margins are so much higher its easier to be more generous in the after sales arena. 

In my world its the same, you'll find lots of stories of Hiscox Insurance going well beyond whats needed (hiring divers to look for a watch because it had sentimental value, paying out on expensive silk scarves just because the box had water damage etc) but then to get near identical cover for my home would be 4x the price with Hiscox than it is with Aviva. 

It was sent via the retailer by their request (reseller).  I took them at their word and assumed that the suitcase would be suitably insured - which is irrelevant anyway as DPD have already proved they are not at fault. I may be naive but was confident that DaKine would inspect the suitcase and see that it has not been used incorrectly.  That's why I almost always pay the extra for brand names as they (in my experience) stand by their products. By the reseller losing my product, they have taken away my opportunity to rectify the situation with the DaKine.  That is my whole point of this - not whether or not a refund is a 'good offer'.

But if it was suitably insured you’d still only get the same, a full refund of the purchase price. 

That would be questionable given what the courier lost was a faulty secondhand item... you could argue it was worth the retail price of a replacement given the warranty but you'd struggle because of the "discretion" the warranty allows the manufacturer 

Okay the best case is the original price paid, as you say the insurance payout may have been much lower as it’s a used item. 

Basically the courier wouldn’t have paid out the current retail price of a replacement, only the original value or less. 

Manxman_in_exile

@marchesini46 -  I'm a bit confused who you are complaining about?

The thread title refers to a warranty claim, but you only seem to be dealing with the retailer and not DaKine.  The only rights you have against the retailer are those given you by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) and under that legislation you would have no hope at all of getting a full refund after 5+ years.  That's why posters are advising you to accept the offered refund.

But if you are dealing direct with DaKine under their warranty that might be a different matter.

As others have indicated you have two problems under the warranty:

First, they talk about replacing at their "discretion", which seems to leave it entirely up to them whether they honour the warranty or not.  However, if you look at this link ( MIELE WASHING MACHINE WARRANTY ISSUE - Page 2 — MoneySavingExpert Forum ) you will find at least two posters who claim to have got round this "discretion" problem by putting it to the manufacturer that the "discretion" limitation in the warranty was an unfair term under the 2015 Act.  I won't rehearse their argument here but it's in the exceedingly long post by @DJMC.  Two posters on that thread claimed that that argument persuaded Miele fo honour their warranty promises.  I'm not going to comment on whether I think it's a valid argument or not.  Whether it would work with DaKine, I have no idea, but you might want to try it.

Second, the warranty is limited to "within the lifespan of the product".  As others have said, if your suitcase is no longer being manufactured or is otherwise no longer available, you are no longer within the lifespan of the product.

And finally, are DaKine a US company?  I'm not sure anyway how you would overcome the practical difficulties of enforcing a warranty given by a US manufacturer to a product you bought in the UK.  (I assume you bought it in the UK.  Did you?)

Personally, if the retailer is willing to offer you a full refund and have said they won't provide you with any sort of replacement (upgraded or not) I think you'd be a bit daft not to accept the refund.

Manxman_in_exile

marchesini46 said:

Appreciate all the responses. I think my main gripe is with that DaKine have this warranty policy:

Limited Lifetime Warranty: Packs & Bags (North America & Europe)

Dakine offers a 10 year Limited Lifetime Warranty against manufacturing defects within the normal scope of use.

Dakine will replace, at its discretion, any products found to be defective within the scope of normal and appropriate utilization and still within the lifespan of the product. Dakine will not be responsible for any costs, losses or damages incurred because of loss or misuse of the product. Dakine does not offer refunds for honored claims. A discount code will be provided.

Dakine is not responsible for damages caused by transit damage. if the product is damaged by an airline or transportation company, please contact the transport company directly and immediately following the incident. 

Where have you got that wording from?  Is it from 2017?

The current wording on their warranty seems to be different.  No mention of discretion, no mention of not giving refunds.  (Assuming I'm looking in the right place...)

Warranty (dakine-europe.com)

marchesini46

Manxman_in_exile said:

marchesini46 said:

Appreciate all the responses. I think my main gripe is with that DaKine have this warranty policy:

Limited Lifetime Warranty: Packs & Bags (North America & Europe)

Dakine offers a 10 year Limited Lifetime Warranty against manufacturing defects within the normal scope of use.

Dakine will replace, at its discretion, any products found to be defective within the scope of normal and appropriate utilization and still within the lifespan of the product. Dakine will not be responsible for any costs, losses or damages incurred because of loss or misuse of the product. Dakine does not offer refunds for honored claims. A discount code will be provided.

Dakine is not responsible for damages caused by transit damage. if the product is damaged by an airline or transportation company, please contact the transport company directly and immediately following the incident. 

Where have you got that wording from?  Is it from 2017?

The current wording on their warranty seems to be different.  No mention of discretion, no mention of not giving refunds.  (Assuming I'm looking in the right place...)

Warranty (dakine-europe.com)

From their website today:
https://www.dakine.com/pages/warranty

WhiskersTheWonderCat

marchesini46 said:

My issue is with the reseller where I have been consistent that I have zero interest in a refund and only a repair or replacement would be acceptable. For all those who are saying that "it's a good offer for 6 year old goods", that is not the point as I have already stated I don't want a refund as I know I cannot purchase a suitcase for the refund amount.  

How much are used DaKine suitcases on eBay? I am sure you can probably find the exact one you had on there. And I highly doubt they would cost more than your full refund. 

You are not due a brand-new suitcase. You are due a 6-year-old used suitcase. 

marchesini46

WhiskersTheWonderCat said:

How much are used DaKine suitcases on eBay? I am sure you can probably find the exact one you had on there. And I highly doubt they would cost more than your full refund. 

Wrong. No used DaKine suitcases on eBay and despite you being sure about it, there aren’t any used ones on there.

WhiskersTheWonderCat said:

You are not due a brand-new suitcase. You are due a 6-year-old used suitcase. 

I never said I’m due anything. DaKine state that they will replace the suitcase if it was found to be defective. All I wanted was the opportunity for DaKine to inspect my defective suitcase which is not possible due to the reseller losing my suitcase and trying to blame it on the courier - since disproved. I was 99% confident that DaKine would see that it was defective through no fault of my own ie no dents, bends or visible outer damage on the case so would be replaced under their 10 year warranty. Of course, DaKine may have disagreed with my assessment but we’ll never know now due the reseller losing my suitcase. 

WhiskersTheWonderCat

I was just making the point that with the full refund of the original RRP, you should easily be able to afford the same suitcase again second hand on eBay. So I would jump at that refund. You might end up with change left over.