London show cancelled 40 mins before start

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

CMA guidance suggests limiting liability for losses that fall outside the below:

5.6.10 Fairness is more likely to be achieved, for example, by excluding liability for:

(a) losses that were not foreseeable to both parties when the contract was formed;
(b) losses that were not caused by any breach on the part of the trader; and
(c) business losses, and/or losses to non-consumers.

(c) doesn't apply to the OP (I presume), with (a) those loses were foreseeable (the trader would have known where the OP lived as you need to provide at least a billing address to pay by card and so knew the OP would have to travel to the venue), with (b) those loses were caused by a breach on the part of the trader. 

I agree the term is unambiguous, I also agree it's for a court to decide but the CMA guidance above suggests it's possibly not a fair term.  

Undervalued

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

CMA guidance suggests limiting liability for losses that fall outside the below:

5.6.10 Fairness is more likely to be achieved, for example, by excluding liability for:

(a) losses that were not foreseeable to both parties when the contract was formed;
(b) losses that were not caused by any breach on the part of the trader; and
(c) business losses, and/or losses to non-consumers.

(c) doesn't apply to the OP (I presume), with (a) those loses were foreseeable (the trader would have known where the OP lived as you need to provide at least a billing address to pay by card and so knew the OP would have to travel to the venue), with (b) those loses were caused by a breach on the part of the trader. 

I agree the term is unambiguous, I also agree it's for a court to decide but the CMA guidance above suggests it's possibly not a fair term.  

What does "foreseeable" mean?

If you are in to doomsday scenarios, pretty much everything is foreseeable.  Nuclear attack, tidal waves up the Thames, plagues of locusts etc! 

Joking apart, where do you draw the line. Obviously at out old friend of what is reasonable - which keeps lawyers in fees!

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

I think it means reasonably foreseeable. 

Is it reasonably foreseeable that a group of people who work, rehearse and possibly socialise together may catch an illness that prevents a show from occurring? 

Personally I don't think that's a remote possibility given illness is a part of everyday life whereas the extreme examples mentioned obviously aren't everyday things  

MobileSaver

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

(c) doesn't apply to the OP (I presume), with (a) those loses were foreseeable (the trader would have known where the OP lived as you need to provide at least a billing address to pay by card and so knew the OP would have to travel to the venue), with (b) those loses were caused by a breach on the part of the trader.

I completely disagree.

For (a) the card address could be anywhere (friend's card, company card) and the ticket delivery address could be anywhere and anyway I seriously doubt all 8 people live at the same address! Regardless, unless the vendor was explicitly told in advance that they were travelling by train to the venue for the sole reason of watching the show then any such losses were not foreseeable.

For (b) the vendor wasn't in breach of contract, was it?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

MobileSaver said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

(c) doesn't apply to the OP (I presume), with (a) those loses were foreseeable (the trader would have known where the OP lived as you need to provide at least a billing address to pay by card and so knew the OP would have to travel to the venue), with (b) those loses were caused by a breach on the part of the trader.

I completely disagree.

For (a) the card address could be anywhere (friend's card, company card) and the ticket delivery address could be anywhere and anyway I seriously doubt all 8 people live at the same address! Regardless, unless the vendor was explicitly told in advance that they were travelling by train to the venue for the sole reason of watching the show then any such losses were not foreseeable.

For (b) the vendor wasn't in breach of contract, was it?

Even without the address it's obvious people have to travel to venue, tickets for shows aren't sold locally only for those in the immediate area. 

When you say the vendor wasn't in breach of contract what are you suggesting?

mr_stripey

if we replace the theatre in this example with say, a football match, which gets called off half an hour before kick off then standard procedure would be that your ticket is valid for the rearranged game, or you could get a refund on the ticket if you were unable to attend the rearranged date. But I doubt very much in either scenario you would be able to claim any expenses incurred in getting to the venue?

MobileSaver

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

MobileSaver said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

(c) doesn't apply to the OP (I presume), with (a) those loses were foreseeable (the trader would have known where the OP lived as you need to provide at least a billing address to pay by card and so knew the OP would have to travel to the venue), with (b) those loses were caused by a breach on the part of the trader.

I completely disagree.

For (a) the card address could be anywhere (friend's card, company card) and the ticket delivery address could be anywhere and anyway I seriously doubt all 8 people live at the same address! Regardless, unless the vendor was explicitly told in advance that they were travelling by train to the venue for the sole reason of watching the show then any such losses were not foreseeable.

For (b) the vendor wasn't in breach of contract, was it?

Even without the address it's obvious people have to travel to venue, tickets for shows aren't sold locally only for those in the immediate area. 

When you say the vendor wasn't in breach of contract what are you suggesting?

Yes, everyone has to travel to a venue but that doesn't necessarily mean there's a cost to that travel so any loss won't have been foreseeable unless the vendor was notified in advance of that cost.

The vendor sold tickets to a live event and the vendor supplied the tickets. The contract specifically stated that (obviously) live events can be cancelled or postponed, what would happen if such a situation arose (a refund in this case) and then they honoured that refund.

What breach of contract do you think occurred?

mebu60

mr_stripey said:

if we replace the theatre in this example with say, a football match, which gets called off half an hour before kick off then standard procedure would be that your ticket is valid for the rearranged game, or you could get a refund on the ticket if you were unable to attend the rearranged date. But I doubt very much in either scenario you would be able to claim any expenses incurred in getting to the venue?

Exactly. Stuff happens. They don't call these things off for fun. 

The theatre was probably hoping that the show would go on so delayed making the decision to cancel until the last possible moment. Which is of no benefit to those travelling when it is cancelled but that is extremely rare occurrence for a big show. 

I know I'd be disappointed, especially if taken the day off work and even more so if self-employed, but hopefully it was still a good day out with friends and the tickets were refunded. And there's a good excuse for another outing to see the show this time! 

photome

regardless of the law if any live venue, be it theatre, football, gigs, started to refund for travel in the event of a late cancellation we would soon be without such venues

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

MobileSaver said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

MobileSaver said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

(c) doesn't apply to the OP (I presume), with (a) those loses were foreseeable (the trader would have known where the OP lived as you need to provide at least a billing address to pay by card and so knew the OP would have to travel to the venue), with (b) those loses were caused by a breach on the part of the trader.

I completely disagree.

For (a) the card address could be anywhere (friend's card, company card) and the ticket delivery address could be anywhere and anyway I seriously doubt all 8 people live at the same address! Regardless, unless the vendor was explicitly told in advance that they were travelling by train to the venue for the sole reason of watching the show then any such losses were not foreseeable.

For (b) the vendor wasn't in breach of contract, was it?

Even without the address it's obvious people have to travel to venue, tickets for shows aren't sold locally only for those in the immediate area. 

When you say the vendor wasn't in breach of contract what are you suggesting?

Yes, everyone has to travel to a venue but that doesn't necessarily mean there's a cost to that travel so any loss won't have been foreseeable unless the vendor was notified in advance of that cost.

The vendor sold tickets to a live event and the vendor supplied the tickets. The contract specifically stated that (obviously) live events can be cancelled or postponed, what would happen if such a situation arose (a refund in this case) and then they honoured that refund.

What breach of contract do you think occurred?

If the booking companies just supply the tickets in that case there is a contract with someone else for the show itself (I said trader rather than vendor ), the show didn't go ahead so perhaps a better wording would be failure by the trader to preform the contract due early termination.

I don't agree regarding the cost element, unless you are within walking distance of the venue then there will be a cost of some kind which no doubt covers the majority of the people attending, I think it's obvious that generally people have to travel to events such as this and there will be costs to that travel, I do agree the specific costs for the OP, or any one as an individual, may not have been known depending upon what information was given by the OP when forming the contract.

photome said:

regardless of the law if any live venue, be it theatre, football, gigs, started to refund for travel in the event of a late cancellation we would soon be without such venues

They'd still be there, they'd just have insurance to cover it.