House purchase - Advice needed (who should pay for what?)

User2349

Hi, 

New to the forum (but have searched around a little) and close to exchanging on a property.
Our survey has pointed out a couple of bits that need checking (utilities as it's not known when they were last inspected), a window pane & seal that need replacing (condensation) and an asbestos survey as there may be some in the textured ceilings. 

The surveys and inspections have added another few hundred pounds to our costs and I'm just trying to get some perspective on how much of this is the seller's responsibility versus ours? Isn't it the seller's responsibility to have utilities checked and boiler serviced periodically? The boiler lacks a service record for the last year and isn't known when last checked.

Asbestos is the potentially larger and more contentious issue. A survey will determine the presence of, concentration and risk of any asbestos, but if it is found and costly to remove, should these costs be negotiated with the seller? Without removal, the ability to make any changes to the property is reduced for fear of disturbing the asbestos, which I feel impacts the value (i.e. reduced potential). I understand that the initially agree price for the property was for it to be sold as-is, but this was prior to any potential asbestos.

I've seen the argument that it's no concern of the seller what the buyer wishes to do with the property, and if that includes disturbing the asbestos then that is the buyer's problem. A counter argument would be that if a pre-existing issue impacts a buyer's ability to perform fairly standard home improvements (e.g. extension, lighting, removing unaesthetic ceiling patterns), and may even impact ability to sell in future then this should be reflected in the price?

Just looking for some perspective here. Happy to hear your experiences and what should/shouldn't be negotiated.
Is it reasonable to ask for the window pane to be replaced prior to completion? Deduct cost of inspections/surveys? Hopefully no asbestos is found and no removal required, but if so, should the cost be deducted?

Thanks            

eddddy

It's all down to negotiation (and psychology) - and who is more desperate, the seller or the buyer.

For example, if the seller won't budge on anything, would you still buy?

If the seller thinks you'd still buy anyway, there isn't too much incentive for them to concede any costs etc.

Although some people will concede a little bit, even when they don't think they have to, just to show goodwill and keep things on friendly terms.

babyblade41

every house I've bought had textured ceilings so overboard them as they are pretty ugly anyway. .The small amount of asbestos will be fairly irrelevant if not disturbed .

Boiler service will cost the seller a few pennies but no guarantee it won't breakdown on completion date .

Is it working when you viewed & still working.? 

Was the house priced to reflect the age  & physical condition ?

user1977

It's not normal for owner-occupiers to regularly carry out checks on electrics or gas, and far from ubiquitous for them to service the boiler. None of that is grounds for adjusting your price unless there are actually any significant problems discovered by your own checks. The double-glazing unit needing replaced is probably a minor cost (and not urgent or essential).

As for asbestos - you're overthinking things here. All you've been given is a general bum-covering comment by your surveyor than any old artex might contain a (very small) amount of asbestos. It's not something people normally investigate further or do anything about, other than bear in mind when they create dust. It does not impact on future sales, unless you're selling to somebody unusually paranoid.

diystarter7

Hi OP

About the surveys etc re asbestos, IMO a waste of time re ceiling as every property we have bought has had them. We have been advised they are not a problem unless you start pulling them down etc. In the bathrooms in every house we've had them boarded and skimmed and other rooms skimmed over and have had this done to several place and thet ceilings are still good. In older houses, lathe and plaster, it may still be ok but its the condition of the existing ceiling can it support the weight of a skim etc


Re boiler, go back and see it work, try to ascertain the age/etc, have a quick look round the rads, tvr for signs of rust etc - a service is no big deal, get it done yourself and flushed as well and new inhibitor etc added -

when we move we assume a boiler will need repalcing soon and we have always replaced the whole system - but if its working and a good quality boiler and not losing pressure, do as i said above. NB, power flush can have its problems Google them if you wish

The house, it does not matter one bit what the seller wants for it or you want to pay, the bottom line is both sides have to agree.

We've laways knocked money off the price we are paying without reason, just say its not worth that. We have at times allowed a couple of k's off what we are selling

A couple of years ago, one of our kids got into a battle with another seriously interested family re buying and paid a bit more than the asking price but they were happy with that as EA can prices property low/high/correct.

Btw - re skim ceiling - i used to be againt that and had them all boarded at great expense a good skimmer willl now what to do to get excellent adhesion

what year place built, approx where is it, type of property, etc. ( I think I recall what a surveyor told me years ago at work when i was at a client that certain coucil estates had loads of asbestos but private sector housing had less, not sure why)

Good luck.

mi-key

Most properties built before the 70s will throw up some sort of asbestos warning. It was just used in so many things back then that the surveyors cover their backs by saying things 'may' contain it.  As other have said, ceilings are easy to skim.

My survey came up with 'floor tiles in some rooms may contain asbestos'. Loads of tiles back then did, but it never bothered me. It's not dangerous unless disturbed, so ignore it until you need some work doing that would disturb it. 

As for the boiler, a service doesn't show much as the boiler could break down the next day. You can pay for an engineer to go in and give you a report on the whole heating system, but this isn't the sellers responsibility. In any case as long as it works and doesn't leak, then don't worry too much about it until it does.

To be honest I don't there is anything there that would justify reducing your offer you have already had accepted

NameUnavailable

The textured ceilings are fine unless you want to change them i.e. your personal taste.

Like most people now I think they look a bit naff usually but I have bought a flat with them and decided to leave them as is. They're very slightly textured so not too noticeable, in fact sitting here now looking up, they look smooth unles I look directly above (as they light catches the texture). 

Give it a few years and artex will probably come back into fashion! If it's a Victorian property then you might want to skim/board them.

All the issues you mentioned are really down to you as the buyer to check/satisfy yourself about, just like buying a used car, you can look at it/test drive it and pay someone to inspect it but the rest is down to you - obviously if there's actual faults that weren't apparent on viewing (damp, wood rot etc) then these can be points of negotiation.

propertyrental

My last viewing I took a CO detector with me and left it next to the boiler while viewing the house.

The boiler was running; the rads were hot; the hot taps ran hot water; and the CO alarm didn't go off.

What more could I want....?

jonnydeppiwish!

There’s nothing that report that would suggests any renegotiation of sale price.

Artex ceilings? Most properties older than 30 years that have flat ceilings have Artex underneath that with the potential for asbestos. If you want to change it then have it skimmed. Wear a mask if you want to put a hole in it.
You’re purchasing the property so you pay the costs for this I’m afraid.

Noneforit999

Unfortunately none of those things are unusual in an older property.

Textured/Artex ceilings were often done using some asbestos in the 60's/70's. There is nothing wrong with them, you could leave them there for decades without issue, assuming you don't mind Artex ceilings. They are not dangerous unless you start drilling into them or cutting them up etc. 

There is no mandatory requirement to have your boiler serviced annually, its just something most people do as a preventative maintenance task to prevent further issues later on or to keep up the warranty on a new boiler.

Electric checks are even less of a thing unless you are a landlord and require them to be checked. If the electrics are very very old and its likely a rewire is needed then you might have room for negotiation on this basis but you can forget asking for regular servicing records for the consumer unit etc, that is not really a thing.

We bought a 60's house, every ceiling is Artex  (likely with Asbestos) so we just overboarded and skimmed them. 

The floor tiles downstairs are the old school thermoplastic tiles which contain asbestos too, we got a firm in to screed over them and we now have a lovely parquet Amtico floor.

Electrics are another story. New kitchen means we basically need a new consumer unit but the wiring is a mess so its costing £3500 on top of the kitchen fitting price to replace the consumer unit, rewire the kitchen entirely including new hob, oven, lighting and socket circuits and sign it all off.

Its an old house. Its going to need some spare cash if you want to try and modernise it. 
Honesty if I were the vendor here and you were trying to get money off for some Artex ceilings which may or may not contain asbestos, I would be moving on swiftly.

bobster2

User2349 said:

Is it reasonable to ask for the window pane to be replaced prior to completion? No. It's a trivial issue.

Deduct cost of inspections/surveys? Buyers normally pay for surveys - not sellers.

Hopefully no asbestos is found and no removal required, but if so, should the cost be deducted? Not deducted but if you have an estimate for removal costs you could try negotiating with the seller for a price reduction. It depends on the nature of the problem. If it's urgent remedial work (e.g. a damaged board posing a risk) then it would be more reasonable to ask. If it's a standard 60s/70s artex ceiling - not really reasonable.

Answers above