Could ‘technically’ be made redundant🙄

AliceBanned

Hi I work for a local authority in a team that is being restructured and this would upgrade all posts to the grade that I am below but currently acting up into.

For months the team has known about this and for months been told by head of dept ‘there is nothing to worry about, no redundancies blah blah. Also the grades are ‘indicative’ and not finalised.

last week two hours before a meeting to provide details I and two others were separately called in to meet with the head who said ‘the unions have told me I have to tell you that you could ‘technically’ be made redundant. This is because we need to be successful at interview to get the grade as the lower grade posts have all been removed. I am working in that grade on an interim basis and one could argue that I ‘should’ be appointed, but the stakes are high if I am otherwise unemployed! Then the vacancy would be filled by a new person so is this even redundancy or is it closer to unfair dismissal? I have a separate post on history of issues. 

The other factor is I am 55 and paying into the local government pension scheme which would payout on non-voluntary redundancy but I’ve only been in it for six years. It’s quite precarious and I’m just trying to prepare for the worst. The managers can glibly say ‘you are all talented’ as though their intention is to shift our grades up but as you can imagine it feels less than safe particularly during such difficult times and having a large mortgage on my own. Just wondered whether anyone can shed any light on LGPS and my possible payout in worst case scenario. Or where to find out more on my employment rights as to me something seems dodgy. Thanks

JReacher1

Sounds to me that none of you are getting made redundant as the plan is to move you all up to the new grade. However as there is an interview process then the unions are right that technically you could be made redundant if you don’t pass the interview. This is why the department head has had to tell you.  It’s one of those situations where in reality you won’t be made redundant but legally as there is an interview process technically you could be made redundant so they have to warn you. 

If you did fail the Interview then it would be redundancy as your previous role no longer exists and you’re deemed not suitable for the higher grade position. 

AliceBanned

Thanks. My main concern was previously in the role I have been very unfairly treated. I’ve applied for promotion 4 times and knew the then manager was bullying me and I nearly raised a grievance. Part of the bullying was blocking promotion amongst other things. She has now left but the head of dept was complicit in what was happening so I don’t trust him, HR or the process.

in reality if they make it difficult for me this time they would be leaving themselves open to a tribunal claim. As the previous lack of promotion was so extreme I mean they really did their best to knock me and hoped I would give up but I carried on applying. Union was involved when I eventually did confront them. All pretty traumatic so I fear the interview not because I’m not good enough but because I have been subject to abuse there in the past. And this time my job is at stake. 

I’m sick of being made to jump through hoops when I work far too hard as it is. But I believe I may be too expensive to make redundant - not sure how I go about reassuring myself by finding out what they would have to provide in redundancy pay given my age which I believe makes a huge difference. 

eamon

I got made redundant last year from a LA/legacy HA job at 60yo. I had 20 years service , any salary before autumn 2014 was on the final salary scheme and after on the career average scheme. Looks like your service is all after 2014 therefore all career average. Your pension provider will have the lastest date (note excluding employers contributions for this year). As for the "new roles", be extremely careful here. I read that you are currently acting up, is that by one grade or more than that? If one grade then your new role is probably secure, but a caveat here. Believe nothing until you have it in writing, HR peeps have been proven numerous times to be incompetent and have already sold their souls to the Devil. Engage fully with your trade union on this matter.

Best of luck

Eamon

AliceBanned

Thanks Eamon. Acting up by one grade into the grade of new role. I am possibly going to dispute the fact that I have to interview for it when three colleagues don’t have to. They are in substantive post but we are currently all doing same role.

We are not treated well so I might even want voluntary redundancy at this rate! Eg today I worked all day until now and often miss dinner or lunch, am covering work for a vacancy and overloaded to the point of losing accuracy. Boss is very shady and got away with things for a long time so I’m VERY wary of this.

Plasticman

It's not uncommon for people to be treated based on their substantive role rather than seconded role in this sort of process. They should be consistent with everybody though. 

If they aren't reducing the number of posts you'd have hoped they might have just mapped people across rather than put them through an interview.  

If you're made redundant, I THINK that as a member of the LGPS they should allow you to claim your pension without a reduction for taking it early as you're over 55 and have been in the scheme over 2 years. 

AliceBanned

Union suggested I get exact figures on redundancy.

I’m being a bit tactical here. I’ve had a very stressful time and was about to apply for a grade above my acting up grade. Basically I want to know how much I would have to live off also, if I walk away.

redundancy figure £7k, pension strain figure I await. Surely it’s a no-brainer if my pension strain figure is enough to cover mortgage payments long term, my employer paying out their share of my Lgps 12 years early!!

HR being cagey saying ‘we said at the meeting we would give figures if you are redundant. Union said I am redundant as post is gone new grade is higher therefore I don’t have to apply though obviously think carefully about the future. I can only do this with the exact figures.

AliceBanned

Ps I would still work in a role I enjoy more later, but would be more secure without my job in this scenario!! ?

AliceBanned

Hi I just wanted to come back to say that last week I was interviewed and was given a permanent job again in the same team, on a higher grade. 

The job looks far more interesting as well and wasn't my last choice. So I am really relieved and also elated because the team is going from strength to strength partly (I believe) because I raised some issues of concern and they have been taken seriously, though it took a long time to get the message across.

Glad to be back in permanent full-time work during these difficult times. 

eamon

Well done Alice, that is good news.

AliceBanned

Hi just picked up this again. All was going well but we have now (over1000 staff joined) had a Teams meeting. We are a large local authority which needs to save £15million before April.

i won’t know whether I’m affected for another month! But given that I’m in the job under 2 years would this mean no redundancy pay if I’ve worked for the same organisation and team for nearly 8 years? The same old anxieties now being triggered. Also some people are saying things like ‘they will use this to get rid of people they don’t like’. I feel I could be victimised and got rid of because I had to raise a complaint in the past.

its a scarey time. I’m 57 on a salary of £55k with a £170k mortgage and no savings. Have tried but different costs mounted up and this all happened suddenly. Though nothing had directly happened yet the atmosphere at work is awful! And I’m very worried. I was enjoying the job and security and being able to build a bit of a life.