Has my mortgage broker been negligent?

coles88

user1977 said:

It sounds more like the lender is at fault for issuing an offer supposedly valid to March when it in fact isn't. Your solicitor wouldn't be expect to look beyond what the offer says.

Ok, will call them. Thank you. 

That said - am I right in understanding that a lender can withdraw an offer for any reason they like? So even though they're potentially at fault, they don't have to honor the offer at this point?

coles88

user1977 said:

AskAsk said:

coles88 said:

AskAsk said:

i would think it is your solicitor that is at fault for allowing you to exchange without checking that you will have the mortgage money.  solicitors check that the money is available before they exchange.  sounds like something has gone wrong, so you should go back to your solicitor.

Thanks - I hadn't considered that. My solicitor has said a few times that he's never come across this happening before. Either way, I assume there's nothing I can do until I hear back on the valuation - at which point if it's bad news and I have to pull out, I can then pursue a complaint?

your claim would be against your solicitor and they in turn would sue the broker if he told them that the money was available and it wasn't, if he acted for the bank.

No, if the solicitor wanted anything else confirmed they'd be contacting the bank, not the broker.

There was some added paranoia during Covid times with solicitors asking lenders if they were really really sure they'd definitely issue the funds...but none of that ought to be necessary, in principle everybody ought to be able to rely on the mortgage offer, and not anticipate the lender pulling it because it's reached an arbitrary date when they need a new valuation.

But am I right in thinking that they can pull it because of this arbitrary date, even if it's no fault of mine? 

user1977

coles88 said:

user1977 said:

AskAsk said:

coles88 said:

AskAsk said:

i would think it is your solicitor that is at fault for allowing you to exchange without checking that you will have the mortgage money.  solicitors check that the money is available before they exchange.  sounds like something has gone wrong, so you should go back to your solicitor.

Thanks - I hadn't considered that. My solicitor has said a few times that he's never come across this happening before. Either way, I assume there's nothing I can do until I hear back on the valuation - at which point if it's bad news and I have to pull out, I can then pursue a complaint?

your claim would be against your solicitor and they in turn would sue the broker if he told them that the money was available and it wasn't, if he acted for the bank.

No, if the solicitor wanted anything else confirmed they'd be contacting the bank, not the broker.

There was some added paranoia during Covid times with solicitors asking lenders if they were really really sure they'd definitely issue the funds...but none of that ought to be necessary, in principle everybody ought to be able to rely on the mortgage offer, and not anticipate the lender pulling it because it's reached an arbitrary date when they need a new valuation.

But am I right in thinking that they can pull it because of this arbitrary date, even if it's no fault of mine? 

In a strict legal sense, yes they can. But they shouldn't be doing it and it would be worthy of a complaint if they do.

coles88

user1977 said:

coles88 said:

user1977 said:

AskAsk said:

coles88 said:

AskAsk said:

i would think it is your solicitor that is at fault for allowing you to exchange without checking that you will have the mortgage money.  solicitors check that the money is available before they exchange.  sounds like something has gone wrong, so you should go back to your solicitor.

Thanks - I hadn't considered that. My solicitor has said a few times that he's never come across this happening before. Either way, I assume there's nothing I can do until I hear back on the valuation - at which point if it's bad news and I have to pull out, I can then pursue a complaint?

your claim would be against your solicitor and they in turn would sue the broker if he told them that the money was available and it wasn't, if he acted for the bank.

No, if the solicitor wanted anything else confirmed they'd be contacting the bank, not the broker.

There was some added paranoia during Covid times with solicitors asking lenders if they were really really sure they'd definitely issue the funds...but none of that ought to be necessary, in principle everybody ought to be able to rely on the mortgage offer, and not anticipate the lender pulling it because it's reached an arbitrary date when they need a new valuation.

But am I right in thinking that they can pull it because of this arbitrary date, even if it's no fault of mine? 

In a strict legal sense, yes they can. But they shouldn't be doing it and it would be worthy of a complaint if they do.

Ok. Thanks for your thoughts - really appreciate. Will be calling the lender first thing tomorrow! 

TheJP

coles88 said:

propertyrental said:

coles88 said:

user1977 said:

coles88 said:

My actual mortgage offer came through on 30th October and is valid until mid-March 2023. 

And what does it say about this 21 January end date for the valuation? I doubt the lender can rely on an unwritten expiry date for their valuation, unless that was clearly flagged up in the offer as being a condition.

The mortgage offer doesn't mention the 21st January valuation date anywhere. It says,

'This document was produced on the basis of the information that you have provided so far and on the current financial market conditions. The information below remains valid until 19th March 2023. After that date, it may change in line with market conditions.'

That seems at odds with

 

coles88 said:

Hi there........On Tuesday my solicitor forwarded on an email from my lender saying that the valuation they had was only valid until 21st January.

So unless there is something else in the original offer that time-limits it, I would go back to the lender and contest this.

And if necessary also query why the solicitor acting for the lender allowed you to exchange.

Ok, thanks for your thoughts. I'm going to call the lender tomorrow and see what they say. I've checked every single document I have and nothing mentions this 21st January cut-off. 

When you say the solicitor acting for the lender - is that my solicitor? 

Yes you pay your solicitor to act on behalf of the lenders interests in the sale.

letom

You'll have a hard job suing your broker because they don't directly have you enter into a contract it's the solicitor, however before getting there my advice would be to call your broker first and your solicitor. Both of them have better direct lines to the lender that you just don't have (e.g. emergency helping teams). It's probably better coming from the solicitor as they can fully explain that this valuation condition was not specified. Your solicitor is more likely to really argue your case vs thé broker as they will start fearing a negligence claim from you, so will be motivated to sort this out.

EssexHebridean

+1 for talking to the solicitor for ways forward and then allowing them to contact the lender on your behalf. They will know the correct approach and the terms to put things in so that when the matter is escalated - as I suspect it will have to be - there is less risk of misinterpretation. This is not likely to be a simple “sort it out over the phone” issue IMO. 

GDB2222

user1977 said:

coles88 said:

user1977 said:

AskAsk said:

coles88 said:

AskAsk said:

i would think it is your solicitor that is at fault for allowing you to exchange without checking that you will have the mortgage money.  solicitors check that the money is available before they exchange.  sounds like something has gone wrong, so you should go back to your solicitor.

Thanks - I hadn't considered that. My solicitor has said a few times that he's never come across this happening before. Either way, I assume there's nothing I can do until I hear back on the valuation - at which point if it's bad news and I have to pull out, I can then pursue a complaint?

your claim would be against your solicitor and they in turn would sue the broker if he told them that the money was available and it wasn't, if he acted for the bank.

No, if the solicitor wanted anything else confirmed they'd be contacting the bank, not the broker.

There was some added paranoia during Covid times with solicitors asking lenders if they were really really sure they'd definitely issue the funds...but none of that ought to be necessary, in principle everybody ought to be able to rely on the mortgage offer, and not anticipate the lender pulling it because it's reached an arbitrary date when they need a new valuation.

But am I right in thinking that they can pull it because of this arbitrary date, even if it's no fault of mine? 

In a strict legal sense, yes they can. But they shouldn't be doing it and it would be worthy of a complaint if they do.

Really? In a strict legal sense the mortgage offer is not binding?

It’s 25 years since I last applied for a mortgage, but I thought the mortgage offer was binding unless there were material changes in the borrower’s circumstances. Otherwise, how could anyone possibly exchange binding contracts to purchase without a binding mortgage agreement?

propertyrental

coles88 said:

propertyrental said:

coles88 said:

user1977 said:

coles88 said:

My actual mortgage offer came through on 30th October and is valid until mid-March 2023. 

And what does it say about this 21 January end date for the valuation? I doubt the lender can rely on an unwritten expiry date for their valuation, unless that was clearly flagged up in the offer as being a condition.

The mortgage offer doesn't mention the 21st January valuation date anywhere. It says,

'This document was produced on the basis of the information that you have provided so far and on the current financial market conditions. The information below remains valid until 19th March 2023. After that date, it may change in line with market conditions.'

That seems at odds with

 

coles88 said:

Hi there........On Tuesday my solicitor forwarded on an email from my lender saying that the valuation they had was only valid until 21st January.

So unless there is something else in the original offer that time-limits it, I would go back to the lender and contest this.

And if necessary also query why the solicitor acting for the lender allowed you to exchange.

When you say the solicitor acting for the lender - is that my solicitor? 

Yes usually, bit not always.

I deliberately worded it like that, even though it's probably the same solicitor, because he's wearing two hats, acting for two different clients, with separate obligations to each of you.

loubel

It is standard for valuations to have an expiry and 6 months wouldn't be an unusual one. Usually this would be pointed out in offer conditions but not always unfortunately.

As you've paid for the new valuation hopefully it will come back fine, but do check whether it was written in the offer conditions. If it was then your solicitor should have spotted it. If not then your broker probably should have warned you about it.