Whose responsibility is to cover leak costs?

Jimmygg7

My neighbour downstairs reported a leak, presumably coming from my flat (we don't know yet). I'll call someone to investigate.

My question is, if the problem is found on my end, i.e. I have a leaky pipe somewhere in my floor, that's causing damage to my neighbour, who's covering for the fix and the damage?

My policy states:

Trace and access: The cost of tracing and accessing the cause of an escape of water or oil (up to £7,500 per claim) and repair costs for the cause of the leak (up to £250 per claim).

Will my insurer cover my neighbour's damage as well as fix my flat's pipe? Or does my neighbour have to claim from his insurer separately for his damage?

ThisIsWeird

A flat in England? In which case there is surely a communal building's insurance via the landlord? So, assuming all the damage caused is to the building 'fabric', then it should all be covered by this.

If any 'contents' were damaged in the flat below, then that would be claimed for by your neighb via their own individual contents insurance. And ditto for you for your flat.

The above is assuming that you were not 'negligent' in the cause of the leak? Eg, it wasn't caused by you DIYing, driving nails through the floor, and stuff like that. Or, if there had been a slow leak that you had been made aware of, but did nothing about.

The 'trace and access' cover you refer to - in which policy is this?

outtatune

Neighbour's damage to decor and contents is their own responsibility, unless you were negligent (e.g. knew there was a leak and did nothing about it). That's why you especially need contents insurance when living in a block of flats. No doubt they'll try to persuade you that you're responsible though

ThisIsWeird

The 'damage to decor' part is an interesting one, as I think it can vary between insurers. When getting quotes for Buildings and Contents, the latter is often explained as, 'turn your house upside-down - whatever falls out is contents'. I would hope that a claim on 'buildings' - the damaged fabric of the building - would include the making-good of the decor. But I don't know.

Jimmygg7

ThisIsWeird said:

A flat in England? In which case there is surely a communal building's insurance via the landlord? So, assuming all the damage caused is to the building 'fabric', then it should all be covered by this.

If any 'contents' were damaged in the flat below, then that would be claimed for by your neighb via their own individual contents insurance. And ditto for you for your flat.

The above is assuming that you were not 'negligent' in the cause of the leak? Eg, it wasn't caused by you DIYing, driving nails through the floor, and stuff like that. Or, if there had been a slow leak that you had been made aware of, but did nothing about.

The 'trace and access' cover you refer to - in which policy is this?

Yes, a flat in England. We have buildings insurance which we have used before in a similar case, however it was a mains pipe in the brickwork that was serving multiple flats.

For this case, I was told by the managing agent that:

With regards to leaks, it is important to recognise that if the leak is coming from an appliance, or a pipe that services only one flat it would be considered as demised and as such would be the responsibility of the property owner to remedy and cover the cost of any making good works that are needed.

Is this true? And, is this something that should be described in the lease?

The trace and access is in my home insurance policy (not the block's)

Jimmygg7

This is not a result of DIY work or negligence, as I don't see any leak in my flat, we only see a spotty area in the flat downstairs.

nofoollikeold

1. Leaks from within a specific flat are normally the responsibility of the owner, not the freehold company / managing agents.  
2. As others above have said, unless caused by negligence, then its usually considered an "act of God", so each affected flat claims on its own insurance.  What that insurance covers depends on the policy.
3. Where its minor damage (e.g. a stain on a ceiling) it can be cheaper for the "offending" flat owner to pay for minor redecoration and keep the insurance companies out of it.
4. Its becoming increasingly expensive for freeholders to find buildings insurance cover.  Excesses are now routinely £1,000 or £2,000 or more.  When a claim is made, the freeholder pays the excess, and recoups it by increasing the service charge.  

ThisIsWeird

Jimmygg7 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

A flat in England? In which case there is surely a communal building's insurance via the landlord? So, assuming all the damage caused is to the building 'fabric', then it should all be covered by this.

If any 'contents' were damaged in the flat below, then that would be claimed for by your neighb via their own individual contents insurance. And ditto for you for your flat.

The above is assuming that you were not 'negligent' in the cause of the leak? Eg, it wasn't caused by you DIYing, driving nails through the floor, and stuff like that. Or, if there had been a slow leak that you had been made aware of, but did nothing about.

The 'trace and access' cover you refer to - in which policy is this?

Yes, a flat in England. We have buildings insurance which we have used before in a similar case, however it was a mains pipe in the brickwork that was serving multiple flats.

For this case, I was told by the managing agent that:

With regards to leaks, it is important to recognise that if the leak is coming from an appliance, or a pipe that services only one flat it would be considered as demised and as such would be the responsibility of the property owner to remedy and cover the cost of any making good works that are needed.

Is this true? And, is this something that should be described in the lease?

The trace and access is in my home insurance policy (not the block's)

It's slightly grey, but I would suggest that all pipework that is part of the 'fabric' supplying the flat should be included in the communal 'buildings' policy. Eg, the plumbing within the floor and walls. I guess - since it is then modified and connected to at certain intervals (like new kitchen and bathrooms being fitted) - all the 'visible' pipework could be considered part of the individual flat owner's responsibility.

But, possibly grey.

What insurance do you have that includes the 'trace and access'?

outtatune

ThisIsWeird said:

Jimmygg7 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

A flat in England? In which case there is surely a communal building's insurance via the landlord? So, assuming all the damage caused is to the building 'fabric', then it should all be covered by this.

If any 'contents' were damaged in the flat below, then that would be claimed for by your neighb via their own individual contents insurance. And ditto for you for your flat.

The above is assuming that you were not 'negligent' in the cause of the leak? Eg, it wasn't caused by you DIYing, driving nails through the floor, and stuff like that. Or, if there had been a slow leak that you had been made aware of, but did nothing about.

The 'trace and access' cover you refer to - in which policy is this?

Yes, a flat in England. We have buildings insurance which we have used before in a similar case, however it was a mains pipe in the brickwork that was serving multiple flats.

For this case, I was told by the managing agent that:

With regards to leaks, it is important to recognise that if the leak is coming from an appliance, or a pipe that services only one flat it would be considered as demised and as such would be the responsibility of the property owner to remedy and cover the cost of any making good works that are needed.

Is this true? And, is this something that should be described in the lease?

The trace and access is in my home insurance policy (not the block's)

It's slightly grey, but I would suggest that all pipework that is part of the 'fabric' supplying the flat should be included in the communal 'buildings' policy. Eg, the plumbing within the floor and walls. I guess - since it is then modified and connected to at certain intervals (like new kitchen and bathrooms being fitted) - all the 'visible' pipework could be considered part of the individual flat owner's responsibility.

But, possibly grey.

What insurance do you have that includes the 'trace and access'?

Everything after the meter/main stop tap is and should be the flat owner's responsibility.

subjecttocontract

You each claim for your individual work & or damage. If there is an excess you are not responsible for reimbursing your neighbours excess payment unless it can be proved that you have been negligent. After all you can't be held responsible for gravity which is the reason the leak from your property has ended up in your neighbours property.