Insistent client pension transfer

Marcon

dunstonh said:

Marcon said:

dunstonh said:

Does anyone know a SIPP provider who will accept an insistent client transfer?

There are no known providers that will accept a transfer if the advice was negative unless it is processed via the IFA agency.

A stakeholder scheme has to accept it and that doesn't have to be done via an IFA.

Name one that is currently open for business?

https://www.standardlife.co.uk/pensions/personal-pension/stakeholder

xylophone

Hello Can you expand on that please? 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6301481/gaining-control-over-my-pension/p1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78653589/#Comment_78653589

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78656116/#Comment_78656116

It appears that there are still a couple of providers but.....see above discussions.

https://www.koody.co/pensions/stakeholder-pension

dunstonh

Marcon said:

dunstonh said:

Marcon said:

dunstonh said:

Does anyone know a SIPP provider who will accept an insistent client transfer?

There are no known providers that will accept a transfer if the advice was negative unless it is processed via the IFA agency.

A stakeholder scheme has to accept it and that doesn't have to be done via an IFA.

Name one that is currently open for business?

https://www.standardlife.co.uk/pensions/personal-pension/stakeholder

Intermediary only.  It can be rejected at intermediary level.

Marcon

dunstonh said:

Marcon said:

dunstonh said:

Marcon said:

dunstonh said:

Does anyone know a SIPP provider who will accept an insistent client transfer?

There are no known providers that will accept a transfer if the advice was negative unless it is processed via the IFA agency.

A stakeholder scheme has to accept it and that doesn't have to be done via an IFA.

Name one that is currently open for business?

https://www.standardlife.co.uk/pensions/personal-pension/stakeholder

Intermediary only.  It can be rejected at intermediary level.

Maybe OP should give them a ring and see what happens when they try to set up a stakeholder with an initial investment of £16 (i.e. set up a stakeholder before attempting, or even mentioning, a transfer).

Bennythedog

Albermarle said:

Looks like £5K down the drain unfortunately.

 

It's looking that way

However should not the IFA have known about the current tighter regulations?

Should the IFA have still gone ahead with the advice knowing it would be impossible to transfer the pension in the event of a negative recommendation?

NedS

Bennythedog said:

Albermarle said:

Looks like £5K down the drain unfortunately.

It's looking that way

However should not the IFA have known about the current tighter regulations?

Should the IFA have still gone ahead with the advice knowing it would be impossible to transfer the pension in the event of a negative recommendation?

You are assuming the IFA would have known the outcome before doing the work. What if the advice had been a positive recommendation to transfer?

Look at it another way - £5k may be cheap for advice that has prevented your friend from making an even costlier mistake.

dunstonh

Maybe OP should give them a ring and see what happens when they try to set up a stakeholder with an initial investment of £16 (i.e. set up a stakeholder before attempting, or even mentioning, a transfer).

I believe there was a thread where someone tried them and got knocked back.     Intermediary includes in-house sales team.  

However should not the IFA have known about the current tighter regulations?

There has been no change in the regulations.     The issue is commercial.

Should the IFA have still gone ahead with the advice knowing it would be impossible to transfer the pension in the event of a negative recommendation?

They would need to know that it was impossible to do that.  I only know because of posts on here.    If I wasn't a member of this site, I wouldn't have a clue what the D2C market is up to.

Marcon

dunstonh said:

Maybe OP should give them a ring and see what happens when they try to set up a stakeholder with an initial investment of £16 (i.e. set up a stakeholder before attempting, or even mentioning, a transfer).

I believe there was a thread where someone tried them and got knocked back.     Intermediary includes in-house sales team.  

Pity OP didn't give it a try for themself. I presume they haven't or they would have come back to confirm the outcome - which I would expect to be that they are now the happy owner of a stakeholder pension bought direct.

dunstonh said:

However should not the IFA have known about the current tighter regulations?

There has been no change in the regulations.     The issue is commercial.

A J Bell could make a commercial decision to stop accepting DB transfers into their SIPP against advice, and did so in 2021 - the last SIPP provider to take such a step.

Stakeholder pension providers have never had a similar option; they have to accept such transfers regardless. The issue is legal, not commercial, for them.

dunstonh said:

Should the IFA have still gone ahead with the advice knowing it would be impossible to transfer the pension in the event of a negative recommendation?

They would need to know that it was impossible to do that.  I only know because of posts on here.    If I wasn't a member of this site, I wouldn't have a clue what the D2C market is up to.

It isn't impossible and never has been. Relying on posts here isn't the best way to check the hard facts! 

Aviva's Target Market Statement issued in 2018 (aimed at advisers but readily available to anyone who looks on their website) confirms their stakeholder pension is aimed at various groups, including those 'wanting access to pension freedoms'. They also confirm the product can be sold with or without advice, and can be sold face to face by an intermediary or direct on request from Aviva.

Their application form (and I've double checked with Aviva that it is current) makes it clear individuals can apply direct without financial advice: 

https://static.aviva.io/content/dam/document-library/adviser/pensions/sp01006.pdf

The application form indicates that Aviva cannot accept transfers from

• Any type of scheme that provides any form of safeguarded benefits where the safeguarded benefits are in excess of £30,000 unless you have received advice, irrespective of the outcome, from a financial adviser with appropriate permissions from the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA).

In other words, you need to have received advice but don't have to follow it for the transfer to go ahead.

Anyone fretting about their application for a stakeholder being rejected because they want to transfer in (technically possible, since any insurer can reject an application for a new pension policy of any type) simply needs to set up the scheme, then apply to transfer in once the scheme has been established. 


@michael1234 - I note your recent thread (discussing what information to give an adviser to get the answer you want) has been removed, which is why I'm answering on this thread instead. Hopefully you'll spot it. If you give your adviser full and accurate information, they can give you the best possible advice - including an explanation of what an annuity is; you never know, it might be just what you need! 

dunstonh

Pity OP didn't give it a try for themself. I presume they haven't or they would have come back to confirm the outcome - which I would expect to be that they are now the happy owner of a stakeholder pension bought direct.

I personally doubt it due to the way all the remaining open stakeholders are put in place via intermediaries.

A J Bell could make a commercial decision to stop accepting DB transfers into their SIPP against advice, and did so in 2021 - the last SIPP provider to take such a step.
Stakeholder pension providers have never had a similar option; they have to accept such transfers regardless. The issue is legal, not commercial, for them.

However, that is not well known and providers have done many things over the years against their own terms and only realised it later when someone pointed it out.

Aviva's Target Market Statement issued in 2018 (aimed at advisers but readily available to anyone who looks on their website) confirms their stakeholder pension is aimed at various groups, including those 'wanting access to pension freedoms'. They also confirm the product can be sold with or without advice, and can be sold face to face by an intermediary or direct on request from Aviva.

They have to make a prod disclosure for the product.  The product may be able to be sold without advice but it still goes through their agency. Which gives them the right to block it.   And none of what they have said alludes to DB transfers. 

The discussions on stakeholder pensions have taken place on many threads over a number of years now but as of yet, not one person has posted a success story by doing it.  Including those that were told to give stakeholders a go.   It may work for someone but given the lack of success stories, I remain on guard.



 

Marcon

dunstonh said:

Pity OP didn't give it a try for themself. I presume they haven't or they would have come back to confirm the outcome - which I would expect to be that they are now the happy owner of a stakeholder pension bought direct.

I personally doubt it due to the way all the remaining open stakeholders are put in place via intermediaries.

A J Bell could make a commercial decision to stop accepting DB transfers into their SIPP against advice, and did so in 2021 - the last SIPP provider to take such a step.
Stakeholder pension providers have never had a similar option; they have to accept such transfers regardless. The issue is legal, not commercial, for them.

However, that is not well known and providers have done many things over the years against their own terms and only realised it later when someone pointed it out.

Aviva's Target Market Statement issued in 2018 (aimed at advisers but readily available to anyone who looks on their website) confirms their stakeholder pension is aimed at various groups, including those 'wanting access to pension freedoms'. They also confirm the product can be sold with or without advice, and can be sold face to face by an intermediary or direct on request from Aviva.

They have to make a prod disclosure for the product.  The product may be able to be sold without advice but it still goes through their agency. Which gives them the right to block it.   And none of what they have said alludes to DB transfers. 

The discussions on stakeholder pensions have taken place on many threads over a number of years now but as of yet, not one person has posted a success story by doing it.  Including those that were told to give stakeholders a go.   It may work for someone but given the lack of success stories, I remain on guard.



 

Read the application form and speak to Aviva. I've done both.