Economy 7 question.

SmithyST170

Hello there. 

My parents are on Economy 7 with British Gas. However they use gas to heat their home and water. 

They hardly use any electricity at night so would they benefit much from changing to a single rate?

Is it possible to do this?

Many thanks!

Paul. 

Gerry1

Yes, I've just done this because BG's new E7 rates are significantly more expensive.  It doesn't need a meter change.

To make sure, just find out the annual electricity consumption (derived from actual meter readings) and then compare the costs of E7 and single rate.

Make sure the immersion heaters are permanently switched off !

EssexHebridean

If they are only using electricity for lighting and appliances, and they majority of that use is during normal waking hours, almost certainly they would be better on single rate, as Gerry says though, it’s an easy one to check on. 

dunstonh

They hardly use any electricity at night so would they benefit much from changing to a single rate?

You need about 40% of your use to be off peak with the narrowest E7 pricing and over 70% with the best off peak pricing.   

You can still switch providers easily with economy 7.   However, if it is not viable even at the smallest ratio difference then its as simple as asking the supplier to move to single rate.

In most cases, it requires no change in meter.  However, your parents will continue to give two readings.  Peak and off peak but they will both be billed at the single rate.

Newbie_John

Take readings on two different dates in a month and compare how much would it cost in both cases.
I had 44p during the day per KWh and 17p at night, when I compared my usage vs 35p (same rate all day) it came about 10% cheaper to switch to standard tariff, and that's in winter - in summer I don't use much electricity at night.

Emailed Octopus, and they switched it next day. I still provide readings from both meters but I am being charged for both of them at the same rate.

pensionpawn

Yes, I've just moved off E7 to single rate for the first time in 26 years due to E7 now becoming uneconomical for me in January. No need to change the meter. Completely bonkers to heard consumers off a night time tariff in the midst of an energy crises....

dunstonh

pensionpawn said:

Yes, I've just moved off E7 to single rate for the first time in 26 years due to E7 now becoming uneconomical for me in January. No need to change the meter. Completely bonkers to heard consumers off a night time tariff in the midst of an energy crises....

I am not sure anyone is hearding consumers off a night time tariff.    If an mixed tariff is suitable for you today then it wasn't in the past (barring any change in uses).    The biggest change we have is the differences in economy 7 tariffs.   How some have moved to improve night rates to a level that is fantastically low.  They are actively encouraging night use.    However, there are still suppliers that only have more marginal differences.

The best supplier for someone with a 70% night rate ratio will be different to someone with a 40% night rate ratio.    So, whilst some may be best on single rate, some may just be on the wrong e7 tariff and a move of supplier and different 37 tariff may be the better option.

e.g. (Eastern region) 
EDF:0.067p night and 0.519 day  vs bulb  0.2175p night and 0.36755p day.

If you have 15,000 kWh use a year and 33% is night use, then EDF is more expensive on E7 than single rate.  However, bulb is cheaper on E7 than single rate.

The breakeven point for single rate on E7 on Bulb is 10.6% at night rate.  ie. you only need 10.6% of your use to be at night for it to be better with bulb.   For EDF, you need 37% at night rate for E7 to be cheaper than single rate.

I believe the more typical historical figure is for night rate needing around 40% for it to be better.

Gerry1

dunstonh said:

pensionpawn said:

Yes, I've just moved off E7 to single rate for the first time in 26 years due to E7 now becoming uneconomical for me in January. No need to change the meter. Completely bonkers to heard consumers off a night time tariff in the midst of an energy crises....

e.g. (Eastern region) 
EDF:0.067p night and 0.519 day  vs bulb  0.2175p night and 0.36755p day.

Apart from the above rates being 100 times too small (no-one sells SVT electricity at less than a penny per kWh) and omitting VAT, Bulb's published SVT prices (Variable 2) for the Eastern England are 24.6687p night and 41.6871p day inc VAT.

dunstonh said:

pensionpawn said:

Yes, I've just moved off E7 to single rate for the first time in 26 years due to E7 now becoming uneconomical for me in January. No need to change the meter. Completely bonkers to heard consumers off a night time tariff in the midst of an energy crises....

The breakeven point for single rate on E7 on Bulb is 10.6% at night rate.  ie. you only need 10.6% of your use to be at night for it to be better with bulb.   For EDF, you need 37% at night rate for E7 to be cheaper than single rate.

I believe the more typical historical figure is for night rate needing around 40% for it to be better.

It used to be as low as 15-20% with some suppliers  My night usage is about 22%; I switched umpteen times and sometimes single rate was cheaper, sometimes it was E7.

dunstonh

Apart from the above rates being 100 times too small (no-one sells SVT electricity at less than a penny per kWh) and omitting VAT, Bulb's published SVT prices (Variable 2) for the Eastern England are 24.6687p night and 41.6871p day inc VAT.

Sorry, I had it in £ format on my spreadsheet  and intended to change to pence but I didn't complete it.   
I took the bulb rate straight from my last statement. But the figures you give are still of similar ratio. So, the point doesn't change.    Which is that the ratio of peak/off peak means that a remaining on E7 but with a different supplier may be the solution for some and not a move to single rate.

pensionpawn

dunstonh said:

pensionpawn said:

Yes, I've just moved off E7 to single rate for the first time in 26 years due to E7 now becoming uneconomical for me in January. No need to change the meter. Completely bonkers to heard consumers off a night time tariff in the midst of an energy crises....

I am not sure anyone is hearding consumers off a night time tariff.    If an mixed tariff is suitable for you today then it wasn't in the past (barring any change in uses).    The biggest change we have is the differences in economy 7 tariffs.   How some have moved to improve night rates to a level that is fantastically low.  They are actively encouraging night use.    However, there are still suppliers that only have more marginal differences.

The best supplier for someone with a 70% night rate ratio will be different to someone with a 40% night rate ratio.    So, whilst some may be best on single rate, some may just be on the wrong e7 tariff and a move of supplier and different 37 tariff may be the better option.

e.g. (Eastern region) 
EDF:0.067p night and 0.519 day  vs bulb  0.2175p night and 0.36755p day.

If you have 15,000 kWh use a year and 33% is night use, then EDF is more expensive on E7 than single rate.  However, bulb is cheaper on E7 than single rate.

The breakeven point for single rate on E7 on Bulb is 10.6% at night rate.  ie. you only need 10.6% of your use to be at night for it to be better with bulb.   For EDF, you need 37% at night rate for E7 to be cheaper than single rate.

I believe the more typical historical figure is for night rate needing around 40% for it to be better.

When we moved to Wiltshire ~26 years ago the break even was down around 20%, it's been hovering around 30% for a while and it's now over 40% I don't see how E7 (in my region) now appeals to anyone now besides EV / battery owners. I was barely achieving 30% with the dishwasher / washing machine - dryer / under floor heating (for last E7 hour) running during the E7 period, so at now 41% it's game over for me unless you know of a supplier in my region who are offering a 75:25, or wider, swing.
Having just Googled Bulb E7 their day rate is 39.773p, night rate is 25.9035p and single rate is 34.2783p giving a break even of 39.6%, which is no good for me.
Surely it can't be good for the national grid if I'm (and others are) now running high power appliances during the day? I have solar panels so I can hopefully offset some of my demand, however November - February I don't have much spare, even on a good day like this afternoon.

EssexHebridean

I’ll add to @dunstonh ‘s Eastern region E7 rates with Octopus - currently 16p night/48p day (rounded) . 

E7 is still far more economical for us - but then we are it’s intended users with an immersion and NSH’s. I’d struggle to see how anyone in that position wouldn’t still find it cheaper unless you were barely heating water and not really heating the rooms much either, or perhaps unless you had very old NSHs where the age meant they no longer really “stored” the heat at all. We load shift almost everything to overnight - we average 75% off peak  across the year and in the middle of winter we can easily hit closer to 95%. If we ran appliances, had showers etc more often on the peak rate then the difference would be less marked, but we’d still be better off on E7 because if the water and heating. 

I think we’ve been enjoying a situation where even a lot of households without the “classic” user profile for E7 have been able to benefit from it by running appliances on timers etc - but those days are now going, and where folk have EVs etc the suppliers really want to get them onto specific EV tariffs like “Go” etc, rather than them using E7. Going back 10 years it wouldn’t have occurred to the “normal” electricity user to even look at E7 but as prices have increased it’s become more of a popular thing again perhaps?