The UK is wasting wind energy, and why it is increasing your bills.

Krakkkers

Mstty said:

I still wouldn't want one on my doorstep. Happy to pay extra for the views.

You would have to time your exit very carefully.

Krakkkers

Really, Most?

Mstty

@Krakkkers

Whoosh.........step........whooosh

Astria

CanNeverThinkOfAUsername said:

I wish i had a wind farm near me. I would love to look at it on a morning while having my cuppa tea and watching the blades go round

Until you look out one day to find out they are not moving, because they've been turned off due to "too strong, too much or wrong type of wind".

Qyburn

About one second between blades of say an Enercon E70, and the blade tip is moving at nearly 200mph.

Xbigman

This is how you avoid the blades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyz_jv_xiB8

Scot_39

Exile28 said:

I've just read a really good article on why costs are not coming down despite using more wind power. Apparently The UK is wasting a lot of wind power

....

It's another example of another massive government failure and that's before you even get into the supplier company mess.

As with many of the challenges this country faces I can't see this going away anytime soon.

Wasting and even "most of" very subjective. 

And it completely misses the fundamental issue driving it - the big problem of wind power - it's variability.

With conventional generation - gas, coal, nuclear - the maximum output power available is predictable - and tends to only vary with age over decades (barring a fault).

Wind power and solar power is not - it is highly variable - say 10-80% installed - on potentially a day to day basis - so it cannot be relied upon or installed capacity counted in the same way.  And so overcapaicty is needed.

From the current IIRC c25.5 GW (Jul22) installed theoretical max capacity - wind generation in the last year delivered a low of c2.13GW weekly ave power to a high of 15.8GW - although some of that might have been limitted / throttled by lack of demand - or "wasted" if you prefer.

Take a look at say - last year etc at https://grid.iamkate.com/  or similar.

In order to meet demand - during those regular troughs of wind power - conventional - mainly gas as now dominant - some coal - had their generating ouput increased - bad for power spot prices depending on demand - bad for emissions goals.

So whilst obviously saving emissions overall - it's nowhere near a direct replacement for fossil fuels or nuclear.

And waste - or maybe unused peak capacity at least - if not payback for not using it - is inevitable.

Take it to a green ideal extreme - 100% replace Gas Gen with Wind

Always a bit silly to take anything to a limit point - but just to hammer home the inherent variability impact on "wasted" capacity.

Over last year - our peak weekly ave for gas generated electricity was 19.5GW. 

Based on Mar 22 lowest ave weekly wind output - would need to have 19.5/(2.13/25.5) = 233 GW of installed wind capacity - to match that. 

Thats not realistic. And at current demand (25-35GW daily) - would currently see c200GW "wasted" capacity.

I hope we wouldn't be expected to compensate suppliers for turning a large chunk of it off every day. (But given current scandals - and it is after all past govt contracts that see old pre 2015 renewables and nuclear - making massive profits in recent months - who would confidently say it wouldn't).

So the reality is it will need a combination of many things

- more renewables to minimise C02/other emissions, when they can

- home and business energy efficiency

- core generation as daily core for grid stability / GW more as standby (new nuclear, even new gas /old gas with carbon capture tech etc ) 

Some of which I am sure is all in hand but if we really want to eliminate permantently more conventional fossil sources - like gas.

- more focus on long term (days/weeks - not few hours) storage to smooth out the worst of the impact of delivery troughs 

Buts costs vs benefits are critical in future decisions - at an industrial and domestic level.

EVs , HeatSourcePumps - just not affordable for millions of homes. 

Unlike green minded MP's - we don't all earn £84k + expenses

And private industry alone or likes of Ofgem - cannot be left to control it / be making these decisions - we need a cross party / experts style commission solution - a proper long term stategy - not chop / change every n years. 

The last 2 auctions sold about c16.8 GW of licenses for delivery 2023-2027 - around 14GW wind power.  At Mar weekly low - that would - on a like for like basis - deliver just 1.2GW output.

Keeping the lights on involves having the capacity to cope with the sub 10% ( last year min 2.13GW weekly ave) wind troughs. 

Peak, ave, installed capacity etc - irrelevent if need the power here and now.  We had to pay a record £9700/MWh in summer - on a still day - to keep SE and London grids up. The normal post Ukraine crisis price £45 in July.

On upside

Every new GW installed - even on a bad day - will save CO2 emissions etc from gas/coal etc

And now licenses sold on a CfD basis - reduces the risk of another international market rate "free for all" bubble for UK consumers in future etc.

But not the silver bullet you might think from headline capacity - when it comes to solving UK's energy supply security.

Or eliminating our reliance on fossil fuels as quickly as these auction headline capacities might imply either.

70sbudgie

Mstty said:

It will undoubtedly all blow over, it'll be gone with the wind.

What's the solution and what are the costs? 

Watch the videos for some solutions:
https://www.nationalgrid.com/electricity-transmission/connections/regional-customer-connections-update

This is one of my bugbears - we've actually been quite good at deploying renewable generation (and increasingly continue to be so), but relatively, we've been rubbish at upgrading the transmission network to match. 

markin

The answer is to built 2 HVDC 4GW east lines at the same time to catch up with the wind build.

The Cloire Glas project at 1.5GW is intended to cycle daily so not really much use for low wind days or 2 windy days in a row.



Or we could copy Germany, (videos outdated, Nov 29, 2021)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc1F0xVHsCY

A._Badger

Alnat1 said:

I'd be happy to watch one turning and think - ooh my leccy will be cheaper today.

I am in exactly that position - I can watch one from my kitchen window. Sadly, it doesn't turn when there's high pressure, no wind and it's freezing cold. Meanwhile, turning or not, the owners make massive profits and electricity prices have never been higher. A little research will show that it isn't by any means only the price of gas that has caused the crippling price rise of electricity in this country and that wind isn't the get out of jail free card that the gullible were promised..