Complicated returns issue with a damaged item

pinkshoes

tempsc said:

pinkshoes said:

tempsc said:

Sorry for not continuing from my previous thread. Noted for the future.

Understand the suppliers have a few choices but my concern is that if the repair is not acceptable, how does that leave me? In principle, I have no issue with their suggestion but I do have a concern as to my rights going forward if the repair isn't good enough.

Again, WHO is doing the repair? The advisor who supplied you with the furniture or the place they got it from?

Hi PinkShoes. So, I'm only communicating with the advisor and they in turn are communicating with the supplier, whom the advisor purchased from. I can only assume that it's the supplier that has proposed they arrange for a repair company to come out and attempt a repair.

In which case as you are going through the person you purchased it from, then if it is not repaired to a satisfactory standard, you can reject it.

Manxman_in_exile

tempsc said:

pinkshoes said:

tempsc said:

Sorry for not continuing from my previous thread. Noted for the future.

Understand the suppliers have a few choices but my concern is that if the repair is not acceptable, how does that leave me? In principle, I have no issue with their suggestion but I do have a concern as to my rights going forward if the repair isn't good enough.

Again, WHO is doing the repair? The advisor who supplied you with the furniture or the place they got it from?

Hi PinkShoes. So, I'm only communicating with the advisor and they in turn are communicating with the supplier, whom the advisor purchased from. I can only assume that it's the supplier that has proposed they arrange for a repair company to come out and attempt a repair.

What you have to remember is that you only have rights against your advisor, not against the company who supplied the furniture to him.

As far as you are concerned, it is your advisor who is proposing and arranging the repair.  Do not lose sight of this.  You must treat any suggestions from the original supplier (or the repair company if different) as being made by and on behalf of your advisor.  

If the repair doesn't work for whatever reason your rights remain against your advisor, not the original supplier or the repair company.  Don't let your advisor off the hook if he tries to say something like "Yes, but you'll have to take that up with the original supplier or repair company.  They did the work".  Any problems with the repair are between him and the original supplier and don't affect you.

Your rights remain against your advisor, and it might be worthwhile reminding him of this fact just in case he thinks he's wheedled his way out of any responsibility by trying to pass it on to his supplier.

Basically the law gives your advisor one attempt either to replace or to repair.  If that one attempt doesn't work you can get a refund.

Aylesbury_Duck

tempsc said:

pinkshoes said:

tempsc said:

Sorry for not continuing from my previous thread. Noted for the future.

Understand the suppliers have a few choices but my concern is that if the repair is not acceptable, how does that leave me? In principle, I have no issue with their suggestion but I do have a concern as to my rights going forward if the repair isn't good enough.

Again, WHO is doing the repair? The advisor who supplied you with the furniture or the place they got it from?

Hi PinkShoes. So, I'm only communicating with the advisor and they in turn are communicating with the supplier, whom the advisor purchased from. I can only assume that it's the supplier that has proposed they arrange for a repair company to come out and attempt a repair.

Don't worry about what the supplier says or does, you have no influence over it.  Just simply keep pressing your advisor for a solution you're happy with.  How they organise that with the supplier is their problem.  What's the point of this advisor, otherwise?  They're supposed to make your life easier as a single point of contact, not be a go-between.

born_again

tempsc said:

MattMattMattUK said:

tempsc said:

Hello all.

I had previously posted a query which I had received much appreciated and welcome advice concerning the supply of a piece of furniture which I was not happy with the condition of. After several to and fro' emails, they have now suggested they send a company out to our home to repair the aspect I am not happy with.

On the face of it, I could be satisfied with the outcome, after repair, but there again, I may not be as I may not be satisfied with the work and the final finish following repair. I  could perhaps reject the suggestion and demand replacement. Is there some template text that I can reply with which will accept the solution the supplier is suggesting whilst retaining my rights to reject the item if the repair is unsatisfactory? I'm just concerned that going down this route could determine my future rights in some way.

Thanks again for any advice. I do appreciate it.

What is the piece of furniture and what is the issue, something simple like a hinge, or something more complicated? 

In general the supplier has a right to repair, replace or refund, the choice is theirs not yours.

The damage is a 'blob' of paint on the front surface of a cabinet door. my initial suggestion was for them to just send me a replacement door and I would fit it and return the damaged one. Instead, they have insisted the damage is acceptable and refused to budge until they have conceded and offered to send a company out to repair it.

Which could well be a very simple job for them to resolve. Not requiring them to supply a whole new door.

tempsc

Many thanks all. I very much appreciate your advice and assistance.

HillStreetBlues

If they are talking about a  repair look for advice on if and how a repair can be done, maybe a DIY forum.
The little I know is that if it's an oil based paint, if only a surface based repair a stain can seep back though

tempsc

Evening all. 

Had a call with my 'advisor' yesterday and rather predictably, it wasn't the most pleasant of experiences. Things are beginning to go down hill with this situation and I'm a bit worried - although also confident of my position taking account of your previous advice. Anyway, during the conversation, the advisor mentioned 'they were only trying to help me with resolving the problem' as they were only acting 'as agents' in the purchase and supply of the furniture. I disputed this and told them they were my supplier and the furniture supplier was in turn their supplier. The advisor then said the fact they were acting as agents was per their terms and conditions. I immediately disputed this as I have never received any terms and conditions, nor are they on the advisors website and no mention too on any of their documentation or invoices. After the telcon, I received an email with the terms and conditions as an attachment, which on the last page, had a space to sign and date to agree to them. Naturally, I have never signed the document.

In reading all 13 pages of them, I really think they are massively one sided to the benefit of the advisor and at the very least there would have been parts of them that I would have asked to be removed or would never agree to. So, in this long continuing saga, am I right to assume that as I have never received the T's and C's before, nor having I signed anything in way of agreeing to them, can I conclude that they don't apply to my relationship with the advisor, and at the very least, they don't apply retrospectively (as in the problems with the furniture that is already supplied). I'd be happy - and quite relieved - if I could post the T's and C's here in this thread for review but don't know if that is allowed, nor how to do it. 

Anyway, thanks again for all/any advice.

Manxman_in_exile

tempsc said:

... Anyway, during the conversation, the advisor mentioned 'they were only trying to help me with resolving the problem' as they were only acting 'as agents' in the purchase and supply of the furniture. I disputed this and told them they were my supplier and the furniture supplier was in turn their supplier. The advisor then said the fact they were acting as agents was per their terms and conditions. I immediately disputed this as I have never received any terms and conditions, nor are they on the advisors website and no mention too on any of their documentation or invoices. After the telcon, I received an email with the terms and conditions as an attachment, which on the last page, had a space to sign and date to agree to them. Naturally, I have never signed the document...

OK.  So if you've never seen his T&Cs and they never brought to your attention I don't see how you can be bound by something you've never read.

Have you ever ticked a tick-box saying you have read and agreed to his T&Cs, or have these T&Cs suddenly materialised from nowhere?  Do they look like they've been quickly written since you've told him you were holding him responsible for this?  

What do you think you agreed with him?  Have you got anything in writing?  Has he got anything in writing that you've agreed to?

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Ignoring those questions for the moment, how much money are we talking about here?  What is the value of this "item of furniture"?  Is it £100 or is it more like £5000?

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What I would suggest is that you go ahead with the repair that your "advisor" seems to be organising and see how that turns out.  If it all turns out to be satisfactory then everybody should be happy.

If it's not to your satisfaction then I don't see that you have any recourse against anybody other than your "advisor", because he's the only person you appear to have a contract with.

Your recourse against him would be a full refund of whatever you paid him for the item of furniture.

You would have to go back to him and explain that, notwithstanding any T&Cs he has produced after the event, as far as you are concerned you have a contract with him that includes the supply to you of an item of furniture, and that that contract is subject to the provisions of the  Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk).  And after one failed attempt at a repair or a replacement you are entitled to a full refund from him, the person you contracted with and who you paid for the item of furniture.  Any issues he has with this are with his supplier, not with you, and you are not interested at all in his issues with his supplier.

I'm not a lawyer so I can't give you legal advice as to what you should or should not do, but I don't see that him producing T&Cs after the event that purport to show that he was acting as your agent have any relevance here at all.  Indeed, it could perhaps be seen as an attempt to evade his legal responsibilities under the legislation - which of course he is not allowed to do.

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For the time being I would suggest that you agree to the suggested repair and see how it turns out.  You may want to emphasise that if the repair is unsuccessful you will be looking to exercise your final right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk)

But first, apart from all that I suggest you wait and see if other posters have any suggestions and whether they think that these belated T&Cs attempting to create an agency relationship are at all relevant to the underlying problem.

You might also want to consider seeking advice from somebody like Citizens' Advice.

If the repair doesn't work out you'll need to make a decision how to move forward.  I'd suggest you come back here if the repair doesn't work out.

Good luck

Manxman_in_exile

Do you have an invoice or anything from the "advisor" showing the item of furniture separately and what you paid him for it?

Did he pass his trade discount onto you?

Manxman_in_exile

And make sure you keep an email trail showing that these T&Cs only appeared after you had raised the issue of his liability to you under the CRA 2015.

Personally I'd try to avoid telecons with him.  If you can't avoid them make sure you confirm the content of telecons by email afterwards.