2022 non payers

soolin

I put my listings back on on the 23rd December and made a few sales over the Christmas period, everything paid for has been posted. However I had 2 offers made, one I counter offered and they accepted the other I accepted outright.

Both remained unpaid and yesterday the 1st one closed automatically on day 4 for non payment, and this morning I had a rather irate message asking why I had done that as they are a good buyer and their feedback showed they always paid. I sent a brief polite message back saying that it was done automatically after 4 days and I was sorry for any inconvenience. Just had another message telling me I am being unreasonable on the basis that RM isn't working so they saw no need to pay quickly as I couldn't post it until Tuesday 3rd anyway- and they were going to pay then on the 3rd. Obviously ignored and blocked.

The other is on day 3 already and will close tomorrow if they don't pay, so that was all a poor end to 2022 . 

Moogles44

soolin said:

I put my listings back on on the 23rd December and made a few sales over the Christmas period, everything paid for has been posted. However I had 2 offers made, one I counter offered and they accepted the other I accepted outright.

Both remained unpaid and yesterday the 1st one closed automatically on day 4 for non payment, and this morning I had a rather irate message asking why I had done that as they are a good buyer and their feedback showed they always paid. I sent a brief polite message back saying that it was done automatically after 4 days and I was sorry for any inconvenience. Just had another message telling me I am being unreasonable on the basis that RM isn't working so they saw no need to pay quickly as I couldn't post it until Tuesday 3rd anyway- and they were going to pay then on the 3rd. Obviously ignored and blocked.

The other is on day 3 already and will close tomorrow if they don't pay, so that was all a poor end to 2022 . 

I get these too. I have one at the moment waiting and 0 feedback  . It’s annoying that ebay take item off sale as I think they should say offer accepted but other buyers can still buy it until you pay for it. It’s a stupid system 
id say I have too many people not pay and you lose sales by people keep doing this. Royal Mail 24 has been posting next day over Xmas for some of my buyers so that’s a lame excuse that they gave you

tightauldgit

Moogles44 said:

soolin said:

I put my listings back on on the 23rd December and made a few sales over the Christmas period, everything paid for has been posted. However I had 2 offers made, one I counter offered and they accepted the other I accepted outright.

Both remained unpaid and yesterday the 1st one closed automatically on day 4 for non payment, and this morning I had a rather irate message asking why I had done that as they are a good buyer and their feedback showed they always paid. I sent a brief polite message back saying that it was done automatically after 4 days and I was sorry for any inconvenience. Just had another message telling me I am being unreasonable on the basis that RM isn't working so they saw no need to pay quickly as I couldn't post it until Tuesday 3rd anyway- and they were going to pay then on the 3rd. Obviously ignored and blocked.

The other is on day 3 already and will close tomorrow if they don't pay, so that was all a poor end to 2022 . 

I get these too. I have one at the moment waiting and 0 feedback  . It’s annoying that ebay take item off sale as I think they should say offer accepted but other buyers can still buy it until you pay for it. It’s a stupid system 
id say I have too many people not pay and you lose sales by people keep doing this. Royal Mail 24 has been posting next day over Xmas for some of my buyers so that’s a lame excuse that they gave you

No I don't think they should continue to sell an item that someone else has already agreed to buy. That's just going to waste someone's time but I wonder if there might be some halfway house where they just pause the listing while the offer is going through rather than end it.

It is INCREDIBLY annoying when people make offers and then don't pay - especially when there's been a back and forward to agree a price. If someone hasn't paid for 4 days then they have a cheek to complain when the sale gets cancelled though.  

soolin

tightauldgit said:

Moogles44 said:

soolin said:

I put my listings back on on the 23rd December and made a few sales over the Christmas period, everything paid for has been posted. However I had 2 offers made, one I counter offered and they accepted the other I accepted outright.

Both remained unpaid and yesterday the 1st one closed automatically on day 4 for non payment, and this morning I had a rather irate message asking why I had done that as they are a good buyer and their feedback showed they always paid. I sent a brief polite message back saying that it was done automatically after 4 days and I was sorry for any inconvenience. Just had another message telling me I am being unreasonable on the basis that RM isn't working so they saw no need to pay quickly as I couldn't post it until Tuesday 3rd anyway- and they were going to pay then on the 3rd. Obviously ignored and blocked.

The other is on day 3 already and will close tomorrow if they don't pay, so that was all a poor end to 2022 . 

I get these too. I have one at the moment waiting and 0 feedback  . It’s annoying that ebay take item off sale as I think they should say offer accepted but other buyers can still buy it until you pay for it. It’s a stupid system 
id say I have too many people not pay and you lose sales by people keep doing this. Royal Mail 24 has been posting next day over Xmas for some of my buyers so that’s a lame excuse that they gave you

No I don't think they should continue to sell an item that someone else has already agreed to buy. That's just going to waste someone's time but I wonder if there might be some halfway house where they just pause the listing while the offer is going through rather than end it.

It is INCREDIBLY annoying when people make offers and then don't pay - especially when there's been a back and forward to agree a price. If someone hasn't paid for 4 days then they have a cheek to complain when the sale gets cancelled though.  

I really don't have problems with keeping an item for sale until it is paid for- in reality payment problems are rare, and on those occasions where ebay has had major glitches everyone has been affected so it disadvantages no one. I also don't see how it wastes everyone times if the item remains for sale? Surely it is the other way round, I am inconvenienced by buyers making or accepting offers that then removes my item from sale for 4 days and possibly means on a private account, the seller then may have to wait two weeks for another FVF offer day to come along, or else re list immediately and pay more fees.

Why does a buyer need 4 days to pay for an item especially when they accept an offer? Surely if accepting an offer they are already online and there's no excuse not to pay immediately. I can understand if they make an offer but are perhaps at work and cannot use paypal - but even then it is unlikely to be more than a few hours before they can pay.

I do like the Vinted system, someone can offer and I can accept or I can counter offer and they can accept but item remains visible and for sale until it is paid for. There are a lot of discussions on the Vinted forums about this as it seems that only around a third of people making or accepting offers ever go onto buy. That seems echoed on my ebay Christmas experience, 2 items sold on offer and neither actually paid for.

Incidentally there are moves in the USA to trial some new ways or reducing these unpaid items. Several buyers have claimed that they have received emails along the lines of 'congratulations seller has accepted your offer, please pay now to secure this item before someone else snaps it up' with the item still showing as for sale. There are also a few people with cards or bank accounts registered that say when they have accepted an offer they were surprised when the system automatically took the payment from their linked card. The first one I have seen screen shots for, the second as at yet no one has provided proof.

GadgetGuru

Yes this is very frustrating - I've had several non payers following successful acceptance of an offer. Just means you have to wait until a new FVF discount offer to relist it all over again!

For me, I've had enough. Not only of the above, but the number of people who purchase a brand new manufacturer sealed item from me, then return it as faulty, which means I have to fully refund and am out postage costs both ways, but when received I find the item is perfectly ok with no issue at all. Buyers are abusing the system by opening and using items, then returning them as faulty so they do not have to pay any return postage etc. Not only am I left short by £15-20 in postage costs, but I'm left with a lower value item that I can now only resell as 'used' and not 'brand new & sealed'.

eBay's response to this is to report the buyer, which I always do, but this does not help me whatsoever. 

This case is the last straw for me : https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6413758/lost-item-and-money-o#latest

I intend to now use eBay only for very low value items that I can afford to lose. For me, it's just no longer worth the stress and the hassle.

hermante

Sometimes I want to secure the item before someone else does, but I don't want to pay immediately because:
- the seller has other auctions going and I want combined postage
- I'm due some nectar points in a few days which I want to use
- I have an INR going which was paid by nectar and waiting for the refund so I can reuse the voucher

I used to message sellers with my intentions but lots of times they responded badly. So now that you officially have 4 days to pay I only message if I want them to wait longer than 4 days.

If they say no I will pay straight away, but I may bid less or not bid on their other items, so they may lose out if only 1 or 0 other people are interested in their other items.

In the other direction I had a buyer string me out for 2 weeks before I finally cancelled and blocked... but I had to wait 2 weeks for the next fees offer anyway. Despite being blocked, that guy seems to keep trying to bid on my stuff even several months later, as reported in the "buyer activity log" (though it only shows the number of feedback, but it definitely looks like it is that guy).

soolin

hermante said:

Sometimes I want to secure the item before someone else does, but I don't want to pay immediately because:
- the seller has other auctions going and I want combined postage
- I'm due some nectar points in a few days which I want to use
- I have an INR going which was paid by nectar and waiting for the refund so I can reuse the voucher

I used to message sellers with my intentions but lots of times they responded badly. So now that you officially have 4 days to pay I only message if I want them to wait longer than 4 days.

If they say no I will pay straight away, but I may bid less or not bid on their other items, so they may lose out if only 1 or 0 other people are interested in their other items.

In the other direction I had a buyer string me out for 2 weeks before I finally cancelled and blocked... but I had to wait 2 weeks for the next fees offer anyway. Despite being blocked, that guy seems to keep trying to bid on my stuff even several months later, as reported in the "buyer activity log" (though it only shows the number of feedback, but it definitely looks like it is that guy).

That is certainly an interesting viewpoint. However if you yourself are in a position to be unable to pay for something then perhaps the poor seller is also hoping to get their money sooner rather than later? If someone wants to combine postage from several purchases I would expect them to check with me before accepting or making an offer, I’m happy to combine wherever reasonable but some things I won’t , especially at the moment as I have some bulky and heavy items and am already facing a struggle to get them packed safely but stay within size , price and weight limits. 

I don’t tend to wait past 4 days now, I seem to have enabled automatic cancellation on day 4 on my mainly used private account, no idea how I did that, but buyers will be getting a strike on day 4 regardless especially as, in the cases in my OP, they never made contact previous to that anyway. 

tightauldgit

soolin said:

tightauldgit said:

Moogles44 said:

soolin said:

I put my listings back on on the 23rd December and made a few sales over the Christmas period, everything paid for has been posted. However I had 2 offers made, one I counter offered and they accepted the other I accepted outright.

Both remained unpaid and yesterday the 1st one closed automatically on day 4 for non payment, and this morning I had a rather irate message asking why I had done that as they are a good buyer and their feedback showed they always paid. I sent a brief polite message back saying that it was done automatically after 4 days and I was sorry for any inconvenience. Just had another message telling me I am being unreasonable on the basis that RM isn't working so they saw no need to pay quickly as I couldn't post it until Tuesday 3rd anyway- and they were going to pay then on the 3rd. Obviously ignored and blocked.

The other is on day 3 already and will close tomorrow if they don't pay, so that was all a poor end to 2022 . 

I get these too. I have one at the moment waiting and 0 feedback  . It’s annoying that ebay take item off sale as I think they should say offer accepted but other buyers can still buy it until you pay for it. It’s a stupid system 
id say I have too many people not pay and you lose sales by people keep doing this. Royal Mail 24 has been posting next day over Xmas for some of my buyers so that’s a lame excuse that they gave you

No I don't think they should continue to sell an item that someone else has already agreed to buy. That's just going to waste someone's time but I wonder if there might be some halfway house where they just pause the listing while the offer is going through rather than end it.

It is INCREDIBLY annoying when people make offers and then don't pay - especially when there's been a back and forward to agree a price. If someone hasn't paid for 4 days then they have a cheek to complain when the sale gets cancelled though.  

I really don't have problems with keeping an item for sale until it is paid for- in reality payment problems are rare, and on those occasions where ebay has had major glitches everyone has been affected so it disadvantages no one. I also don't see how it wastes everyone times if the item remains for sale? Surely it is the other way round, I am inconvenienced by buyers making or accepting offers that then removes my item from sale for 4 days and possibly means on a private account, the seller then may have to wait two weeks for another FVF offer day to come along, or else re list immediately and pay more fees.

Why does a buyer need 4 days to pay for an item especially when they accept an offer? Surely if accepting an offer they are already online and there's no excuse not to pay immediately. I can understand if they make an offer but are perhaps at work and cannot use paypal - but even then it is unlikely to be more than a few hours before they can pay.

I do like the Vinted system, someone can offer and I can accept or I can counter offer and they can accept but item remains visible and for sale until it is paid for. There are a lot of discussions on the Vinted forums about this as it seems that only around a third of people making or accepting offers ever go onto buy. That seems echoed on my ebay Christmas experience, 2 items sold on offer and neither actually paid for.

Incidentally there are moves in the USA to trial some new ways or reducing these unpaid items. Several buyers have claimed that they have received emails along the lines of 'congratulations seller has accepted your offer, please pay now to secure this item before someone else snaps it up' with the item still showing as for sale. There are also a few people with cards or bank accounts registered that say when they have accepted an offer they were surprised when the system automatically took the payment from their linked card. The first one I have seen screen shots for, the second as at yet no one has provided proof.

It wastes people's time because if the item is already 'sold pending payment' then anyone else bidding on that item is going to lose out on it down the line if and when the original buyer pays. So you'd end up in a situation where people were bidding on items that are already sold and then getting cancellation notices. Or making offers on items that are already sold?

Or if a new bidder is allowed to gazump the older one then that's not really right either. You accepted an offer and should honour it. 

As I said I think the right way is probably a half-way house where an accepted offer ends the auction but it remains paused for 24 or 48 hours and if payment isnt received then it restarts again. For me 4 days is too long to pay, in my experience if people haven't paid within 24 hours then they aren't paying ever. 

Actually requiring a linked payment card to make offers and then automatically charging it might be a good idea. Although Ebay seem to be quite happy to entertain non-paying bidders and non-binding sales anyway judging by my recent experience where the buyer won an auction and then just immediately asked to cancel the sale - Ebay basically tell you that you should agree to cancel it since they haven't paid yet.

Ebay seem to want to play both sides of the coin but unless they are willing to enforce sales as binding then I don't see that they can really do much to prevent people simply not paying. 

soolin

tightauldgit said:

soolin said:

tightauldgit said:

Moogles44 said:

soolin said:

I put my listings back on on the 23rd December and made a few sales over the Christmas period, everything paid for has been posted. However I had 2 offers made, one I counter offered and they accepted the other I accepted outright.

Both remained unpaid and yesterday the 1st one closed automatically on day 4 for non payment, and this morning I had a rather irate message asking why I had done that as they are a good buyer and their feedback showed they always paid. I sent a brief polite message back saying that it was done automatically after 4 days and I was sorry for any inconvenience. Just had another message telling me I am being unreasonable on the basis that RM isn't working so they saw no need to pay quickly as I couldn't post it until Tuesday 3rd anyway- and they were going to pay then on the 3rd. Obviously ignored and blocked.

The other is on day 3 already and will close tomorrow if they don't pay, so that was all a poor end to 2022 . 

I get these too. I have one at the moment waiting and 0 feedback  . It’s annoying that ebay take item off sale as I think they should say offer accepted but other buyers can still buy it until you pay for it. It’s a stupid system 
id say I have too many people not pay and you lose sales by people keep doing this. Royal Mail 24 has been posting next day over Xmas for some of my buyers so that’s a lame excuse that they gave you

No I don't think they should continue to sell an item that someone else has already agreed to buy. That's just going to waste someone's time but I wonder if there might be some halfway house where they just pause the listing while the offer is going through rather than end it.

It is INCREDIBLY annoying when people make offers and then don't pay - especially when there's been a back and forward to agree a price. If someone hasn't paid for 4 days then they have a cheek to complain when the sale gets cancelled though.  

I really don't have problems with keeping an item for sale until it is paid for- in reality payment problems are rare, and on those occasions where ebay has had major glitches everyone has been affected so it disadvantages no one. I also don't see how it wastes everyone times if the item remains for sale? Surely it is the other way round, I am inconvenienced by buyers making or accepting offers that then removes my item from sale for 4 days and possibly means on a private account, the seller then may have to wait two weeks for another FVF offer day to come along, or else re list immediately and pay more fees.

Why does a buyer need 4 days to pay for an item especially when they accept an offer? Surely if accepting an offer they are already online and there's no excuse not to pay immediately. I can understand if they make an offer but are perhaps at work and cannot use paypal - but even then it is unlikely to be more than a few hours before they can pay.

I do like the Vinted system, someone can offer and I can accept or I can counter offer and they can accept but item remains visible and for sale until it is paid for. There are a lot of discussions on the Vinted forums about this as it seems that only around a third of people making or accepting offers ever go onto buy. That seems echoed on my ebay Christmas experience, 2 items sold on offer and neither actually paid for.

Incidentally there are moves in the USA to trial some new ways or reducing these unpaid items. Several buyers have claimed that they have received emails along the lines of 'congratulations seller has accepted your offer, please pay now to secure this item before someone else snaps it up' with the item still showing as for sale. There are also a few people with cards or bank accounts registered that say when they have accepted an offer they were surprised when the system automatically took the payment from their linked card. The first one I have seen screen shots for, the second as at yet no one has provided proof.

It wastes people's time because if the item is already 'sold pending payment' then anyone else bidding on that item is going to lose out on it down the line if and when the original buyer pays. So you'd end up in a situation where people were bidding on items that are already sold and then getting cancellation notices. Or making offers on items that are already sold?

Or if a new bidder is allowed to gazump the older one then that's not really right either. You accepted an offer and should honour it. 

As I said I think the right way is probably a half-way house where an accepted offer ends the auction but it remains paused for 24 or 48 hours and if payment isnt received then it restarts again. For me 4 days is too long to pay, in my experience if people haven't paid within 24 hours then they aren't paying ever. 

Actually requiring a linked payment card to make offers and then automatically charging it might be a good idea. Although Ebay seem to be quite happy to entertain non-paying bidders and non-binding sales anyway judging by my recent experience where the buyer won an auction and then just immediately asked to cancel the sale - Ebay basically tell you that you should agree to cancel it since they haven't paid yet.

Ebay seem to want to play both sides of the coin but unless they are willing to enforce sales as binding then I don't see that they can really do much to prevent people simply not paying. 

I was thinking of only BINs not auctions as I think auctions do need to allow a few days or so in case someone isn’t at a PC. Also, it is rarer to see offers on auctions, someone bids and wins and pays, or bids and wins and doesn’t pay. Virtually all of my items are BINs I rarely bother with auctions and that means my unpaids tend to also be on Offers made or accepted on a BIN. I’ve never sent an offer on an auction, not sure it is even possible.

However there is absolutely no reason why an offer made or accepted isn’t considered binding until paid for. A buyer can only be gazumped if they don’t bother paying . 

The way Vinted works is that if I get an offer which I accept, the item remains available until buyer pays, if they don’t pay then someone else can offer or just buy. There are no auctions on Vinted . 

tightauldgit

Yes you can absolutely make best offers on auctions on Ebay provided the seller listed it to allow it. That's generally what I do in my auctions - I list them at the price I think it's worth and set 'allow offers' with a minimum maybe 10-20% below that so I catch people who might be interested at a slightly lower price. Sometimes people will make an offer over the minimum price listed. Effectively it's an alternative to BIN with no extra charges over the basic auction fee.

If I'm buying something I will tend to look out for listings that will accept offers as it allows a bit of haggling on the price but you can get it immediately. Would never dream of making an offer on something and then not paying though.




 

GadgetGuru

tightauldgit said:

Yes you can absolutely make best offers on auctions on Ebay provided the seller listed it to allow it. That's generally what I do in my auctions - I list them at the price I think it's worth and set 'allow offers' with a minimum maybe 10-20% below that so I catch people who might be interested at a slightly lower price. Sometimes people will make an offer over the minimum price listed. Effectively it's an alternative to BIN with no extra charges over the basic auction fee.

If I'm buying something I will tend to look out for listings that will accept offers as it allows a bit of haggling on the price but you can get it immediately. Would never dream of making an offer on something and then not paying though.




 

Yup, I do exactly the same as you