Future of clean air zones?

user1977

Bigwheels1111 said:

How much carbon used to replace it.

None, unless your decision to replace your car triggers a new car being manufactured.

Grumpy_chap

Goudy said:

I can't see what the local governments rake in on these ULEZ schemes ever replacing what the national government rake in from VED.

I think we are going to end up with tiered pricing schemes.
Everyone pays the national governments VED, even EV's (that's been announced already).
Local governments will alter these clean air zones to road charging zones as they become less profitable.

Khan has already stated that is the long term plan for London.

If you think about it, introducing a charge for entering a clean air zone in a polluting vehicle isn't that big a money spinner, not in long run.
There are a large amount of vehicles already exempt and many that can, will swap their vehicles anyway.
The ones that aren't exempt are naturally dying out each and every day.

It is ironic how divisive this is though.  Especially for a Labour Mayor who, allegedly, cares about the poor.  This tax is pricing the poor off the road while the rich can just upgrade to another new Bentley. 

Bigwheels1111

user1977 said:

Bigwheels1111 said:

How much carbon used to replace it.

None, unless your decision to replace your car triggers a new car being manufactured.

I meant a low emissions car with ongoing low emissions as I’m a low mileage driver.
Needing to be replaced, how much Co2 and carbon is needed to replace a clean car.
My car could last for 20 years and would get nowhere near the emissions that a new car would produce being made.

Herzlos

Grumpy_chap said:

Goudy said:

I can't see what the local governments rake in on these ULEZ schemes ever replacing what the national government rake in from VED.

I think we are going to end up with tiered pricing schemes.
Everyone pays the national governments VED, even EV's (that's been announced already).
Local governments will alter these clean air zones to road charging zones as they become less profitable.

Khan has already stated that is the long term plan for London.

If you think about it, introducing a charge for entering a clean air zone in a polluting vehicle isn't that big a money spinner, not in long run.
There are a large amount of vehicles already exempt and many that can, will swap their vehicles anyway.
The ones that aren't exempt are naturally dying out each and every day.

It is ironic how divisive this is though.  Especially for a Labour Mayor who, allegedly, cares about the poor.  This tax is pricing the poor off the road while the rich can just upgrade to another new Bentley. 

Not just the poor drivers though, but the poor pedestrians, cyclists and everyone else who likes having clean air.

London is offering a scrappage scheme with (I think) £2k towards a replacement for people who scrap non-exempt cars, which should at least take the sting out for some people assuming you can get a compliant car for £2k.

DrEskimo

Bigwheels1111 said:

user1977 said:

Bigwheels1111 said:

How much carbon used to replace it.

None, unless your decision to replace your car triggers a new car being manufactured.

I meant a low emissions car with ongoing low emissions as I’m a low mileage driver.
Needing to be replaced, how much Co2 and carbon is needed to replace a clean car.
My car could last for 20 years and would get nowhere near the emissions that a new car would produce being made.

This is not true.

The use phase of a car is where the largest proportion of a ICE cars emission comes from over its lifetime. The graph below highlights this. This also only considers CO2, there is also NOX and other particulates, which is what the clean air zones are targeting. Again, all primarily produced during the use phase.

https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/electric-cars-emit-less-co2-over-their-lifetime-diesels-even-when-powered-dirtiest-electricity/

Goudy

Grumpy_chap said:

Goudy said:

I can't see what the local governments rake in on these ULEZ schemes ever replacing what the national government rake in from VED.

I think we are going to end up with tiered pricing schemes.
Everyone pays the national governments VED, even EV's (that's been announced already).
Local governments will alter these clean air zones to road charging zones as they become less profitable.

Khan has already stated that is the long term plan for London.

If you think about it, introducing a charge for entering a clean air zone in a polluting vehicle isn't that big a money spinner, not in long run.
There are a large amount of vehicles already exempt and many that can, will swap their vehicles anyway.
The ones that aren't exempt are naturally dying out each and every day.

It is ironic how divisive this is though.  Especially for a Labour Mayor who, allegedly, cares about the poor.  This tax is pricing the poor off the road while the rich can just upgrade to another new Bentley. 

You wouldn't bet against the plan is the proletariat must use public transport while the bourgeois can afford and will pay whatever charges the central committee throw their way to use the roads.

Then it's win win for TFL.

They'd have already priced the poor off the roads on to their transport systems, so there's less whoha when they wringe as much as possible out of everyone else.

Now that does sound like a business plan.

Grumpy_chap

Herzlos said:

London is offering a scrappage scheme with (I think) £2k towards a replacement for people who scrap non-exempt cars, which should at least take the sting out for some people assuming you can get a compliant car for £2k.

With absurd eligibility that means the scrappage will only be paid to about 2 people.
Plus, it is a high-risk process.  You have to assess yourself against the rules, then scrap your car and obtain the Certificate of Destruction (CoD), then submit the CoD and hope that the powers-that-be agree your car and you were both eligible and that the funds were not exhausted before your application was processed.
So, if you scrapped your car and then the powers that be decide you cannot have the scrappage, what then?

Herzlos

Grumpy_chap said:

Herzlos said:

London is offering a scrappage scheme with (I think) £2k towards a replacement for people who scrap non-exempt cars, which should at least take the sting out for some people assuming you can get a compliant car for £2k.

With absurd eligibility that means the scrappage will only be paid to about 2 people.
Plus, it is a high-risk process.  You have to assess yourself against the rules, then scrap your car and obtain the Certificate of Destruction (CoD), then submit the CoD and hope that the powers-that-be agree your car and you were both eligible and that the funds were not exhausted before your application was processed.
So, if you scrapped your car and then the powers that be decide you cannot have the scrappage, what then?

I'm not saying it won't apply to many people, but whilst it's slow it shouldn't be risky. You apply for approval, then scrap the car, provide evidence and get the money. So if you need a car to get to work you are screwed.