Overcharged in a bar - debit card chargeback claim refused

HotLanta

eskbanker said:

HotLanta said:

born_again said:

HotLanta said:

I was scammed (overcharged) in a bar abroad. I stupidly used my debit card for the transaction (around £1200). The bank, who I have been with for 16 years, is refusing to take on the dispute claim because they feel I don’t have enough evidence. They said to me that I need a copy of the receipt, invoice or a picture of the menu. I cannot get this information, and the bar is refusing to give me any of it. I am in contact with the bar indirectly, via a waiter, and they have no online presence, won’t give their address or the name of the bar. The waiter has now gone silent.

Is there anything I can do to reclaim the money? Would reporting this as officially fraud rather than being overcharged increase my chances?

Do not report as fraud. As you made the transaction & the bank know that.. You could find yourself having to find a new bank & a CIFAS marker.

As to the chargeback. The bank have to go via Visa/Mastercard rules & in this case they are asking for the info required to contest it. Without that information they can not proceed. 
Did you not get the receipt at the time?

I didn’t get the receipt at the time. I have been asking for one since, but they are saying to me that they do not give receipts and can’t give me a breakdown of what I ordered.

So how do you plan to convince your bank that you were charged the wrong amount?

It’s a tough one. I did make another transaction on a credit card. The credit card company refunded me the money (for now) and are investigating - they will be asking the merchant for the burden of proof. I understand though that credit cards and debit cards work differently. If the credit card company wins the case I am hoping it can help with my debit card company.

HotLanta

400ixl said:

Surely you can find the name of the place via Goole street view? How did you get hold of a waiter without at least knowing the basics?

As for the actual issue, is it a case of you got a bill of one amount but the charged a different amount to your card? How was the transaction paid for, in local currency and the bank used their exchange rate, or in £'s and a 3rd party did the exchange rate?

You say the charge to the card was £1200, what should it have been? Or was £1200 what it should have been and the amount taken was more?

It doesn't sound unreasonable that the bank would require evidence such as a bill.

It shouldn’t have been anything more than £120-£200. I went to a bar in an area which is full of scams targeting tourists. I did not know. I was told I should have not paid and called the police. I got the waiter’s number at the end of the night ‘to keep in touch’, that’s how I’ve kind of managed to reach the restaurant rather than through any official channel, but because of my line of questioning he has now blocked me. As far as I’m aware, these dodgy places don’t tend to be easily reachable - and that’s deliberate. 

DullGreyGuy

HotLanta said:

eskbanker said:

HotLanta said:

born_again said:

HotLanta said:

I was scammed (overcharged) in a bar abroad. I stupidly used my debit card for the transaction (around £1200). The bank, who I have been with for 16 years, is refusing to take on the dispute claim because they feel I don’t have enough evidence. They said to me that I need a copy of the receipt, invoice or a picture of the menu. I cannot get this information, and the bar is refusing to give me any of it. I am in contact with the bar indirectly, via a waiter, and they have no online presence, won’t give their address or the name of the bar. The waiter has now gone silent.

Is there anything I can do to reclaim the money? Would reporting this as officially fraud rather than being overcharged increase my chances?

Do not report as fraud. As you made the transaction & the bank know that.. You could find yourself having to find a new bank & a CIFAS marker.

As to the chargeback. The bank have to go via Visa/Mastercard rules & in this case they are asking for the info required to contest it. Without that information they can not proceed. 
Did you not get the receipt at the time?

I didn’t get the receipt at the time. I have been asking for one since, but they are saying to me that they do not give receipts and can’t give me a breakdown of what I ordered.

So how do you plan to convince your bank that you were charged the wrong amount?

It’s a tough one. I did make another transaction on a credit card. The credit card company refunded me the money (for now) and are investigating - they will be asking the merchant for the burden of proof. I understand though that credit cards and debit cards work differently. If the credit card company wins the case I am hoping it can help with my debit card company.

Chargeback is no difference however banks take different approaches to the level of evidence required before they will raise one.

I maintain that if they are happy to accept pictures of the menu then either 1) these will already exist online or 2) a friendly message on Tripadvisor would get a local to to take one for you.

born_again

DullGreyGuy said:

Chargeback is no difference however banks take different approaches to the level of evidence required before they will raise one.

I maintain that if they are happy to accept pictures of the menu then either 1) these will already exist online or 2) a friendly message on Tripadvisor would get a local to to take one for you.

Level of evidence required is down to Visa/Mastercard/Amex. Banks have to provide as required for the chargeback being actioned. They can not set their own rules. Failure to provide the required evidence, can lead to a default rejection. Which is the end of any chance of getting money back.

Picture of menu would need to be backed up by receipt listing items. If not then retailer can make up what they want to the amount. End of case.
Sadly. 🤬

On the receipt issue, it's amazing how many people think that banks get a copy of the till receipt.

DullGreyGuy

born_again said:
On the receipt issue, it's amazing how many people think that banks get a copy of the till receipt.

In the US they dont get a receipt but if the merchant subscribes (getting lower fees in exchange) they can get a fairly detailed breakdown of the transaction... certainly they can be given a breakdown of the total across many different categories (so a restaurant transaction is split by food, alcoholic drink, non-alcoholic and service) and believe it can also give a count of the items making the total.

Never heard of the same being available to UK card issuers and instead the much cruder MCC is used. 

born_again said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Chargeback is no difference however banks take different approaches to the level of evidence required before they will raise one.

I maintain that if they are happy to accept pictures of the menu then either 1) these will already exist online or 2) a friendly message on Tripadvisor would get a local to to take one for you.

Level of evidence required is down to Visa/Mastercard/Amex. Banks have to provide as required for the chargeback being actioned. They can not set their own rules. Failure to provide the required evidence, can lead to a default rejection. Which is the end of any chance of getting money back.

Would have to see the exact set of rules but there is always interpretation involved and some can be more or less strict.

RhondaD

As has been mentioned, can you not use Google Earth to look at the street you visited and see the name or the bar on there?