Trying to get a reduction in DD with EDF. Best way forward?

lohr500

ariarnia said:

lohr500 said:

I am more than happy to adjust the DD if I stick with EDF after the fixed tariff ends, once I know what the new rates will be. But I see no reason o build up a significant credit with EDF until then when the cash could be sat in my own account earning interest.

if it helps you work out a quick back f the envelope. if the government keep the cap at £3000 from april thru winter then the forums best guess is about 45p/kWh for electricity and 12.5p/kWh for gas

if they scrap the cap then the industry best guess for q3 and 4 (august onward) is here; https://www.cornwall-insight.com/press/cornwall-insight-forecasts-a-fall-in-the-april-2023-price-cap-but-prices-remain-significantly-above-the-energy-price-guarantee/

Thanks ariania. 

We are currently on EDF's GoElectric 98 tariff, fixed to August 23. So who knows what will happen to this tariff at the end of August, other than it it is bound to increase!! They may even withdraw it.
Our fallback could be an Economy 7 tariff and as we have seen, different suppliers have very different day/might cost rates within the overall cap.

I got through to EDF on the phone this morning with only a 5 minute waiting time and had no problem getting the DD set back to the previous value.   

dunstonh

1. My Direct Debit was increased from £125 to £141 per month
2. I am in credit with EDF by £103.94. As this is less than £150 EDF have a policy of not paying a refund (it's in the FAQ's).

To have just £103.94 in credit at this point of the year when your regular payment is £125 is quite low. That may explain the increase.

Has anyone else had any joy getting EDF to reduce the DD and if so, how did you manage to get them to do it? Stop focusing on the amounts in money terms.  Focus on your use instead.  i.e. how many kWh are you using.    Your use is what is important.  The regular payment plus credit/debit are all based on an estimate of your use.   

If your actual historic use (plus any evidence based changes) indicate that the amount you are paying is inaccurate then you have a strong case and the supplier will listen.  If you go to them without any detail on why you think they should refund or not change the amount then they are likely to refuse.

Look at your meter readings (actual, not estimate) over a year and that will tell you how much you use.  2022 had a mild winter early on and a mild Autumn at the end (bar a week or two).  So, its likely any 2022 readings are lower than average.     2023 could be the complete opposite.  So, if the use and what you pay is marginally different then dont ask for the money back.  If you have your readings for 2021 and 2020 then you can get a much better idea of trends.

You may find keeping a monthly read on the same date each month on a spreadsheet gives you better understanding of your use.  Knowledge is king when it comes to things like this.    

Bark01

1 other point, when EDF calculate what your estimated charges will be for the next 12 months, they need 2 things.
1) An estimate of consumption over the next 12 months
2) Incorporation of any known changes to prices over the next 12 months (they will only use known rates, they won't estimate what future increases will be if they haven't been announced)

On point one, they will look back at historic usage and estimate future usage and then they will add a level of weather correction. We've had a warm winter so there will be an assumption based on historic weather that recent consumption is below the norm and will build in an increase in consumption for next year on the assumption that it will be colder and you'll use more.

Estimated annual consumption over the next 12 months is shown somewhere on your bill as part of the could you pay less section. 

KxMx

Spoonie_Turtle said:

MalMonroe said:

I'm with Octopus … Because there is no advantage to paying by direct debit with them (i.e. no bonus for doing so) and no penalty either

That's not the case any more.
https://octopus.energy/help-and-faqs/articles/some-tariffs-cheaper-direct-debit/

https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-price-cap-oct-2022/

The usual figure bandied around is it costs 7-10% more paying on receipt of bill compared to fixed DD.

However that rather assumes that the DD is set at a sensible level which is an accurate reflection of usage.
In my personal opinion the fixed DD amounts are often inflated, people often don't question the increases and just pay them, so it's debateable how much more that pay on receipt figure is.

Variable DD is an option for some but not for all- I was only offered fixed DD or quarterly bill when I set up my energy account. 

MattMattMattUK

KxMx said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

MalMonroe said:

I'm with Octopus … Because there is no advantage to paying by direct debit with them (i.e. no bonus for doing so) and no penalty either

That's not the case any more.
https://octopus.energy/help-and-faqs/articles/some-tariffs-cheaper-direct-debit/

https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-price-cap-oct-2022/

The usual figure bandied around is it costs 7-10% more paying on receipt of bill compared to fixed DD.

However that rather assumes that the DD is set at a sensible level which is an accurate reflection of usage.
In my personal opinion the fixed DD amounts are often inflated, people often don't question the increases and just pay them, so it's debateable how much more that pay on receipt figure is.

Variable DD is an option for some but not for all- I was only offered fixed DD or quarterly bill when I set up my energy account. 

Pay on receipt always costs more because the Direct Debit is not the actual cost, just putting money into an account. The actual cost is realised at the point of billing, at which point the account will be reconciled and any over or underpayment will need to be managed, the cost will always be higher on oay on receipt of bill.

ariarnia

KxMx said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

MalMonroe said:

I'm with Octopus … Because there is no advantage to paying by direct debit with them (i.e. no bonus for doing so) and no penalty either

That's not the case any more.
https://octopus.energy/help-and-faqs/articles/some-tariffs-cheaper-direct-debit/

https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-price-cap-oct-2022/

The usual figure bandied around is it costs 7-10% more paying on receipt of bill compared to fixed DD.

However that rather assumes that the DD is set at a sensible level which is an accurate reflection of usage.
In my personal opinion the fixed DD amounts are often inflated, people often don't question the increases and just pay them, so it's debateable how much more that pay on receipt figure is.

Variable DD is an option for some but not for all- I was only offered fixed DD or quarterly bill when I set up my energy account. 

as matt says. no it doesn't. 

a dd is acts like a payment into a savings account used to pay your bill. it isnt your bill. 

both paying by card when you get your bill or having the cost of your bill taken from your dd balance means you only pay for the units you use. 

the difference is the cost of the units will be lower for someone paying by dd than by on receipt of bill. by about 7-10%

so unless your savings account pays you 7-10% interest on credit balances then you will be paying more if you dont set up a dd. 

wild666

If in the winter months you are still using less than your monthly DD tell them then if they don't take action put in a complaint then after 8 weeks with no reply take it to the ombudsman. 

MikeJXE

wild666 said:

If in the winter months you are still using less than your monthly DD tell them then if they don't take action put in a complaint then after 8 weeks with no reply take it to the ombudsman. 

Thats all very well if they take any notice. I sent letters, emails, telephone calls to OVO disputing their proposed rise in my DD £91 up to £153, when I was in credit at the end of each month. I will be leaving them mid February and I will have a large repayment due from them as by then there will be proof my £91 DD covered my bills and I would never have been in debit. The energy companies want YOUR money in THEIR bank, simples. 

wild666

What I have noticed is that suppliers NEVER take into account any credit the user has when working out a DD. If it's a small amount like £100 they WILL keep hold of it claiming you MIGHT use more at some point in the future whilst all the time it is in THEIR account they will be getting interest on the credit the person has. I asked this of my supplier and they said that they only work out the annual usage on the electric and gas used in the last 12 month and don't budget for any credit the user has whether it's £1 or £1000.

EssexHebridean

MikeJXE said:

wild666 said:

If in the winter months you are still using less than your monthly DD tell them then if they don't take action put in a complaint then after 8 weeks with no reply take it to the ombudsman. 

Thats all very well if they take any notice. I sent letters, emails, telephone calls to OVO disputing their proposed rise in my DD £91 up to £153, when I was in credit at the end of each month. I will be leaving them mid February and I will have a large repayment due from them as by then there will be proof my £91 DD covered my bills and I would never have been in debit. The energy companies want YOUR money in THEIR bank, simples. 

So, 8 weeks from the point that you sent a formal complaint, if they have not responded, you go to the Ombudsman. It’s entirely irrelevant whether the energy supplier have “taken notice”, indeed, it can be more straightforward, so long as you have followed process, if they have not. 

wild666 said:

What I have noticed is that suppliers NEVER take into account any credit the user has when working out a DD. If it's a small amount like £100 they WILL keep hold of it claiming you MIGHT use more at some point in the future whilst all the time it is in THEIR account they will be getting interest on the credit the person has. I asked this of my supplier and they said that they only work out the annual usage on the electric and gas used in the last 12 month and don't budget for any credit the user has whether it's £1 or £1000.

The thing is, in spite of the shouty capitals, this isn’t always the case. I’ve certainly had dialogues with energy suppliers in the past where they have taken into account a credit balance, and we’ve heard from countless people on here where they have seen DD’s reduced after following the correct process when they have a credit balance. That is what account reviews are there for.