Help with County Court Claim Defence if possible? Northwest Parking/DCBL

Tommytheslug

Hello all,

Thanks for all the valuable info posted by the experts, its been a massive help so far.

Im just preparing my defence and was wondering how much detail I need to go into? Ifollowed the newby thread and acknowledged the claim through MCOL today, so I have a bit of time to go, but Id like to get it up to speed sooner rather than later.

Ive used the template, and added my defense details/facts to paragraph 3, and as I understand, have just left the rest as is. Is that correct? Ive looked through a few other threads and have seen other defences posted with extra info added about the text size on signs etc, so I was wondering if i'd missed a post where this was outlined or if its something to be added later?

For info, this is the paragraph i've added for my defence. Im not sure if these are mitigating circumstances rather than a solid defence based on the parking company and their methods, so any advice would be appreciated. I'm pretty new to all this so apologies if im not on the required level yet!

3. The defendant was visiting Hartlepool Marina to see family members, who have their boat moored there. The purpose of the visit was to help them pack up their belongings and return home, due to the failing health of the defendant’s Mother in law. The lady in question suffers from severe COPD among other issues. Due to the age and failing health of the defendants family member, the defendant was required to aid them in bringing their luggage from the boat to the car, before providing assistance with the substantial walk between the boat and the car park area to their Mother in Law. This required more than one trip, and the distance between the two required frequent rest stops due to her breathing difficulties, which therefore meant the whole exercise took longer than anticipated. 

I can add bits about the signage if need be, or anything else that will help my case.

Thanks again for any help, these forums are an amazing help to those like me who arent up to speed on these things.

KeithP

Hello and welcome.

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Tommytheslug

Hi KeithP, 

Its 12/12/2022.

Cheers

KeithP

Tommytheslug said:

Its 12/12/2022.

With a Claim Issue Date of 12th December, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 16th January 2023 to file your Defence.

That's nearly four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence and it is good to see you are not leaving it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Tommytheslug

Ok thats what Ive done, Thanks for that. Ill have a bit more of a dig around and see if theres anything else I need to add in regards to my defense facts. I dont want to fail due to not putting in enough or the correct information at this stage.

Not_A_Hope

In your defence or background info you might state what term or condition the PPC is suggesting you breached. I am assuming an overstay and if so was this minutes or hours? Have you got photos of the signs which are the basis of the alleged contractual breach?

A few thoughts. If it is a marina do bylaws apply? They often do.

Have you previously appealed the PCN and admitted who the driver was? Was the NTK POFA compliant and would it apply on this specific land?

Perhaps you could argue loading and unloading is not parking (look up Jopson v Homeguard). 

Perhaps the PPC should allow more time for those with a disability (Disability Equality Act). 

With a bit more info and research you could perhaps add some extra points to the template defence

Tommytheslug

Thats excellent, cheers. Just the sort of suggestions I was hoping for, Ill have a good look around and see what I can find out and post my updated defence for any comments! Thanks again, its much appreciated!

Umkomaas

Tommytheslug said:

Thats excellent, cheers. Just the sort of suggestions I was hoping for, Ill have a good look around and see what I can find out and post my updated defence for any comments! Thanks again, its much appreciated!

You've got a bit of time to do that, but don't miss that vital defence submission deadline, especially with the intervening festive season potentially taking your eye off the ball. 

Tommytheslug

Umkomaas said:

Tommytheslug said:

Thats excellent, cheers. Just the sort of suggestions I was hoping for, Ill have a good look around and see what I can find out and post my updated defence for any comments! Thanks again, its much appreciated!

You've got a bit of time to do that, but don't miss that vital defence submission deadline, especially with the intervening festive season potentially taking your eye off the ball. 

roger that, cheers for the help!

Tommytheslug

Not_A_Hope said:

In your defence or background info you might state what term or condition the PPC is suggesting you breached. I am assuming an overstay and if so was this minutes or hours? Have you got photos of the signs which are the basis of the alleged contractual breach?

A few thoughts. If it is a marina do bylaws apply? They often do.

Have you previously appealed the PCN and admitted who the driver was? Was the NTK POFA compliant and would it apply on this specific land?

Perhaps you could argue loading and unloading is not parking (look up Jopson v Homeguard). 

Perhaps the PPC should allow more time for those with a disability (Disability Equality Act). 

With a bit more info and research you could perhaps add some extra points to the template defence

Good evening all, hope you all had a great festive period and Happy new year!

Im just working on my defence before submitting, and wanted to address a few of the above points made by NOT_A_HOPE:

1: The Marina is covered by the Teesport Hrbour Byelaws 1977-1985. I have read them and have a copy, but I couldnt see anything that may be relevant to parking or loading?

2: Ive appealed it via a PCN appeals company, Parking Mate. I havent named the driver, but admitted to being the keeper and the appeal states that the PCN does not mention the law required to transfer liability to the keeper (protection of freedoms act 2012) therefore I denied any responsibility and didnt name the driver. I received no response to my appeal other than them denying that they received it. I resubmitted it and they said it was out of the timescale for appeal. Parking Mate told me to then ignore all further communications from them until a court claim arrived.

3: Im currently researching this case and will add anything relevant, thankyou.

4: I believe so, They offer a 15 minute free grace period before parking charges come into effect, so by the time we have found a space, travelled to the machine to pay etc, my 20 minute overstay seems very harsh considering the reason why we were late leaving. How do they know I didnt have car trouble, or was blocked in by something in the car park preventing me leaving? There seems to be a lot of potential mitigating circumstances that they couldnt prove were right or wrong as they have no way of knowing. Not that I need to lie or anything, but my point being that these people have no way of proving or disproving the reason that we overstayed, only that we did. Therefore, they could just dismiss my reasons out of hand, which to me makes it look even more like a simple cash grab, rather than a legitimate fine due to a financial loss incurred by them.

Thanks very much, I have copies of the byelaw, my appeal and have photos of the charge notice and the sign, showing the ridiculously small text! I can post images of them up here if necessary.

KeithP

Tommytheslug said:

Not_A_Hope said:

In your defence or background info you might state what term or condition the PPC is suggesting you breached. I am assuming an overstay and if so was this minutes or hours? Have you got photos of the signs which are the basis of the alleged contractual breach?

A few thoughts. If it is a marina do bylaws apply? They often do.

Have you previously appealed the PCN and admitted who the driver was? Was the NTK POFA compliant and would it apply on this specific land?

Perhaps you could argue loading and unloading is not parking (look up Jopson v Homeguard). 

Perhaps the PPC should allow more time for those with a disability (Disability Equality Act). 

With a bit more info and research you could perhaps add some extra points to the template defence

1: The Marina is covered by the Teesport Hrbour Byelaws 1977-1985. I have read them and have a copy, but I couldnt see anything that may be relevant to parking or loading?

That's a really important point.

It doesn't matter what the byelaws say, the fact that the byelaws exist is enough.

There is no way that the Claimant can use the Protection of Freedoms Act ('POFA') to transfer any driver's liability to the keeper. That is because the land is 'under statutory control' and it is not 'relevant land' as far as POFA is concerned.

For this reason, it is most important that the Claimant does not know who was driving.