Underground waste drain pipe + cold water feed + hot water feed

Eldi_Dos

@FrankRizzo, the 750mm is coverage measured from top of pipes not bottom of trench, need to take that into account. Laying some sand and tamping down before laying pipes is good idea.
A drainage shovel is the tool to get, will save any unnecessary digging.

FrankRizzo

ThisIsWeird said:

FrankRizzo said:

Both hot and cold will run from the kitchen sink and thats where the mains water also enter the property. These pipes will need to run underground as boxing them above, won't work unfortunately due to the garden layout. It will run approx 5 meters - in terms of digging I would dig as deep as necessary albeit if I start hitting really hard stuff I may need to just aim for 750mm.

In terms of the waste, there is a rain water down pipe, I wonder if I can connect to that below ground? There is also a rodding point near by, not sure if I could connect to this? Also not sure if thats for rain water or foul waste - is there a way to tell?

If you open the rodding point, you should be able to tell what it's for - drain a sink or basin in the house, or flush a loo! If your rainwater downpipes are separate - some are, some are not - then it'll likely be leading to a soakaway rather than the sewer. Tbh, for all you will be using this for, I 'think' either is fine. I would, tho', run your new drain via a 'gulley' - a U-bend - to catch any sediment and stuff. Or, if the sink is close to where the D/P goes into the ground, just point it in there...

The rodding point (i think thats what it is), is ground surface level and when you take the cap off, it just goes straight into a u-bend, so no easy way to tell. There is a sewer cover in the front garden. It is Barratt house, looks new build but its actually 17 years old.

I will use check valve thanks.

I will also use a full bore isolation under the sink to isolate during the cold periods. I will also fit one externally at the dog wash area with a drain valve and hopefully that will mean its drained during cold periods and won't be frozen during the cold periods, so it can still be utilised.

Also I will fit blender valve (great thinking thanks) under kitchen sink and that should mean I will just need to run a single pipe to the dog wash area?

Section62

FrankRizzo said:

Also I will fit blender valve (great thinking thanks) under kitchen sink and that should mean I will just need to run a single pipe to the dog wash area?

Yes, that was what I was suggesting - by blending the water in the house and running it via a single pipe you would save on materials and wasted hot water.  There is probably also a marginal benefit in terms of reduced frost risk.

However, note that this is probably still a contravention of the building regs, and it is also poor practice in terms of legionnaires prevention.  So proceed very carefully, and be fully aware of the risks to you and your pet(s).

I would still recommend a hosepipe solution to the problem as being preferable though.

FreeBear

Eldi_Dos said:

@FrankRizzo, the 750mm is coverage measured from top of pipes not bottom of trench, need to take that into account. Laying some sand and tamping down before laying pipes is good idea.
A drainage shovel is the tool to get, will save any unnecessary digging.

5m+ of trench at 750mm deep, sounds like a good excuse to play with hire a mini-digger for the weekend. Any other large landscaping projects could be tackled at the same time.

Eldi_Dos

FreeBear said:

Eldi_Dos said:

@FrankRizzo, the 750mm is coverage measured from top of pipes not bottom of trench, need to take that into account. Laying some sand and tamping down before laying pipes is good idea.
A drainage shovel is the tool to get, will save any unnecessary digging.

5m+ of trench at 750mm deep, sounds like a good excuse to play with hire a mini-digger for the weekend. Any other large landscaping projects could be tackled at the same time.

Digging was never my forte but 5m+ would have been used as a trade test by some of the foremen I've seen around.

grumbler

FrankRizzo said:

ThisIsWeird said:

FrankRizzo said:

Both hot and cold will run from the kitchen sink and thats where the mains water also enter the property. These pipes will need to run underground as boxing them above, won't work unfortunately due to the garden layout. It will run approx 5 meters - in terms of digging I would dig as deep as necessary albeit if I start hitting really hard stuff I may need to just aim for 750mm.

In terms of the waste, there is a rain water down pipe, I wonder if I can connect to that below ground? There is also a rodding point near by, not sure if I could connect to this? Also not sure if thats for rain water or foul waste - is there a way to tell?

If you open the rodding point, you should be able to tell what it's for - drain a sink or basin in the house, or flush a loo! If your rainwater downpipes are separate - some are, some are not - then it'll likely be leading to a soakaway rather than the sewer. Tbh, for all you will be using this for, I 'think' either is fine. I would, tho', run your new drain via a 'gulley' - a U-bend - to catch any sediment and stuff. Or, if the sink is close to where the D/P goes into the ground, just point it in there...

The rodding point (i think thats what it is), is ground surface level and when you take the cap off, it just goes straight into a u-bend, 

A rodding point doesn't go to a u-bend
     

FrankRizzo

grumbler said:

FrankRizzo said:

ThisIsWeird said:

FrankRizzo said:

Both hot and cold will run from the kitchen sink and thats where the mains water also enter the property. These pipes will need to run underground as boxing them above, won't work unfortunately due to the garden layout. It will run approx 5 meters - in terms of digging I would dig as deep as necessary albeit if I start hitting really hard stuff I may need to just aim for 750mm.

In terms of the waste, there is a rain water down pipe, I wonder if I can connect to that below ground? There is also a rodding point near by, not sure if I could connect to this? Also not sure if thats for rain water or foul waste - is there a way to tell?

If you open the rodding point, you should be able to tell what it's for - drain a sink or basin in the house, or flush a loo! If your rainwater downpipes are separate - some are, some are not - then it'll likely be leading to a soakaway rather than the sewer. Tbh, for all you will be using this for, I 'think' either is fine. I would, tho', run your new drain via a 'gulley' - a U-bend - to catch any sediment and stuff. Or, if the sink is close to where the D/P goes into the ground, just point it in there...

The rodding point (i think thats what it is), is ground surface level and when you take the cap off, it just goes straight into a u-bend, 

A rodding point doesn't go to a u-bend
     

Thanks! Sorry I am not sure why I said u-bend as its nothing like a u-bend, its a 45 degree plastic bend like your diagram, thanks!

Is there anyway to tell if this is for foul water or rain?

FrankRizzo

Section62 said:

FrankRizzo said:

Also I will fit blender valve (great thinking thanks) under kitchen sink and that should mean I will just need to run a single pipe to the dog wash area?

Yes, that was what I was suggesting - by blending the water in the house and running it via a single pipe you would save on materials and wasted hot water.  There is probably also a marginal benefit in terms of reduced frost risk.

However, note that this is probably still a contravention of the building regs, and it is also poor practice in terms of legionnaires prevention.  So proceed very carefully, and be fully aware of the risks to you and your pet(s).

I would still recommend a hosepipe solution to the problem as being preferable though.

Thanks. I would let the water run before using it - would that mitigate the legionnaires? Is that not a risk for garden rooms as well with are only periodically used?

Hosepipe would be less work, although I just wanted one less thing to setup when dealing with mucky pup, but it has so many benefits as you described.

Section62

FrankRizzo said:

Thanks. I would let the water run before using it - would that mitigate the legionnaires? Is that not a risk for garden rooms as well with are only periodically used?

It depends what temperature the blended hot water will be at.  A more cautious approach would be to flush the pipe through periodically after increasing the temperature to the maximum possible. But remembering to turn it back down again to avoid the risk of scalding.

The risk applies to garden rooms as well.  Which is why a better solution for a garden room would be to supply it with cold water only, and have an instantaneous water heater inside the garden room to provide hot water locally.

I would have advised an instantaneous heater in your circumstances, but the complications of protecting it from frost and damp, as well as introducing electric shock risks, would rule that solution out as unworkable/unacceptable.

FrankRizzo

Thanks for all the help, this will really help me make an informed decision about whats best over all.