Can Solicitor insist on approval of their bill before distributing the estate?

yorsiwel

A firm of Solicitors is sole Executor of an estate for which I am a beneficiary. The Solicitor has provided  final estate accounts, which I am happy to approve but with the exception of the Solicitor's bill. The Solicitor says the accounts must be approved before any money can be paid out. Can they refuse to pay out until their bill is agreed?  (I am happy for them to take the money they say they are due and give me a refund, if a reduction in the bill is later agreed). 

sharpe106

Why are you not happy with the bill? 

TBagpuss

IT's not unreasonable for them to reetain enough to cover the bill and for any extra that may be indurred in dealing with quesries or disputes. 

What is your issue wit hthe bill? 

Keep_pedalling

The solicitor does not actually need to have your agreement on the fees as you are not their client. If you are going to challenge their fees then you are simply going to delay the distribution and you are almost certainly going to have to file a complaint with the LO. 

What is the value of the estate and how much are they charging?

MobileSaver

yorsiwel said:

A firm of Solicitors is sole Executor of an estate for which I am a beneficiary. The Solicitor has provided  final estate accounts, which I am happy to approve but with the exception of the Solicitor's bill. The Solicitor says the accounts must be approved before any money can be paid out. Can they refuse to pay out until their bill is agreed?

While it may seem unfair, sadly they can withhold payouts until the accounts have been approved.

The issue is that if you continue to dispute their bill then the bill will continue to rise as they put the hours in to respond to your dispute. So until their bill is agreed (by approving the accounts) they don't know how much is available to distribute.

What specifically are you unhappy about? You need to be aware that generally executors have wide-ranging powers and do not need to justify why something cost as much as it did. If they have a receipt for a certain service provided then even if double what you expected there is little you can do about it unless you suspect actual dishonesty.

Quorden

Although you're a beneficiary of the estate, if you have specific complaints then you can raise these with the solicitor directly and they have to treat you in the same way as they would deal with a complaint from a client. This does not incur any costs. Good article here; https://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/information-centre/consumer-resources/complaining-to-a-service-provider/.

If you feel they haven't provided a satisfactory response you can then raise a case with the Legal Ombudsman, unless you're in N.Ireland in which case give up all hope.

Tbh with more than experience of this than is healthy then unless it's a noticeable amount I'd just agree the costs and move on.

MobileSaver

Quorden said:

Tbh ... unless it's a noticeable amount I'd just agree the costs and move on.

^ This. If it's purely that you think they are charging too much then you are probably on a hiding to nothing.

However if you think there's some impropriety then that's a different matter.

TripleH

This might be down to rules on client money and a cautious solicitor.

If you hold client mone (in a client account), you can't take money to pay your bills without the consent of the client.

I think the solicitor in a roundabout way is asking if they can take their fees before they distribute the estate.

You can say no and make them chase after the estate has been distributed but with multiple beneficiaries, the burden will most likely fall on 1 person to pay and chase everyone else.

The way proposed means solicitors are paid, everyone gets their share and hopefully noone will be chased for outstanding funds.

silvercar

MobileSaver said:

yorsiwel said:

A firm of Solicitors is sole Executor of an estate for which I am a beneficiary. The Solicitor has provided  final estate accounts, which I am happy to approve but with the exception of the Solicitor's bill. The Solicitor says the accounts must be approved before any money can be paid out. Can they refuse to pay out until their bill is agreed?

While it may seem unfair, sadly they can withhold payouts until the accounts have been approved.

The issue is that if you continue to dispute their bill then the bill will continue to rise as they put the hours in to respond to your dispute. So until their bill is agreed (by approving the accounts) they don't know how much is available to distribute.

What specifically are you unhappy about? You need to be aware that generally executors have wide-ranging powers and do not need to justify why something cost as much as it did. If they have a receipt for a certain service provided then even if double what you expected there is little you can do about it unless you suspect actual dishonesty.

We had this problem. Theirs fees were astronomical and broken down to minute detail. We had every right to complain, but they pointed out that we would be charged at the same rate for all their defending of their fees. There really should be rules on this. The estate was charged £20 for a phone call where the number was engaged. They tried 3 times in the space of 10 minutes allegedly and charged the estate £60.

Keep_pedalling

silvercar said:

MobileSaver said:

yorsiwel said:

A firm of Solicitors is sole Executor of an estate for which I am a beneficiary. The Solicitor has provided  final estate accounts, which I am happy to approve but with the exception of the Solicitor's bill. The Solicitor says the accounts must be approved before any money can be paid out. Can they refuse to pay out until their bill is agreed?

While it may seem unfair, sadly they can withhold payouts until the accounts have been approved.

The issue is that if you continue to dispute their bill then the bill will continue to rise as they put the hours in to respond to your dispute. So until their bill is agreed (by approving the accounts) they don't know how much is available to distribute.

What specifically are you unhappy about? You need to be aware that generally executors have wide-ranging powers and do not need to justify why something cost as much as it did. If they have a receipt for a certain service provided then even if double what you expected there is little you can do about it unless you suspect actual dishonesty.

We had this problem. Theirs fees were astronomical and broken down to minute detail. We had every right to complain, but they pointed out that we would be charged at the same rate for all their defending of their fees. There really should be rules on this. The estate was charged £20 for a phone call where the number was engaged. They tried 3 times in the space of 10 minutes allegedly and charged the estate £60.

They can’t charge you for responding to a complaint, solicitors are regulated and they have to follow the complaints procedure laid down by them. If you don’t get a satisfactory response then you take it to the legal ombudsman which costs the complainant nothing.

yorsiwel

Thanks for the responses. There are a number of issues. eg They passed the file around like a hot potato and there is evidence on the face of it that they have charged for some of the same work twice. They also appear to have charged £850 in fees to sell shares worth £620. My understanding is that if I complain about their service or bill, they cannot charge for that. I would be happy to approve the accounts and then make a formal complaint, but then I don't want that complaint to be ruled out because I approved the accounts. And I don't want to be waiting for the estate proceeds until the Legal Ombudsman has ruled because that could well take over a year.  

On the other hand, I tend to agree that I would be on a hiding to nothing in trying to dispute their fees.