Request For CCA Agreement from PRA Group

GP1983

Hi there, 

I recently requested a CCA Agreement and a statement of account from PRA Group. This relates to a defaulted amount from Barclaycard, over 6 years ago.

Today, PRA Group said:

"I can confirm that we have received the agreement from Barclaycard today and this will be sent out to you shortly."

I then received a 10-page PDF. The first page is a letter from Barclays Bank to PRA Group stating:

"Please find enclosed documentation under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for our mutual client as requested. We are unable to provide Varied terms and conditions.

We have enclosed the following documents:

1. Short form cancellation
2. Historic terms and conditions 

The second page states:

"We refer to your request for documentation. 1974, under which we must provide a copy of the executed agreement \(and any document referred to in it\) and a statement of the account. We need to advise you that, regrettably, we are currently unable to fulfil your request. As such, we are not currently able to enforce our agreement with you and the agreement will remain unenforceable until such time as we are able to fulfil your request.

"Whilst discussions continue, we know that we're not able to enforce our agreement with you, but our rights continue to exist under the agreement.

Your current outstanding balance is [amount] and you will need to continue to pay the debt that's accrued on the account and make payments in accordance with your statements.

It is important to note that, where debt has accrued on your account, we will, where required, report to credit reference agendas \(which may impact your credit rating\), demand payment from you, issue a default notice, and instruct a third party to demand payment or otherwise seek payment from you.

So am I right in thinking they can not produce a CCA Agreement, and thus this is unenforceable? 

Also, didn't Barclaycard sell this debt to PRA Group? Why do Barclaycard believe I should be paying them and not PRA Group? 

Many thanks

MorningcoffeeIV

GP1983 said:

Also, didn't Barclaycard sell this debt to PRA Group? 

You'd know if they had, as they'd have sent you a letter regarding it 

Either way, it's a generic CCA response you've received regarding making payment..

GP1983

That's fine. So as I understand it, the debt is unenforceable. And as the debt is over 6 years old, nothing they can do will affect my credit history. That's good news. 

summerb64

That’s great, happy days! Could I just ask when the account was roughly opened with barclaycard? I have an account with PRA that was originally a barclaycard from 2011 and just wondering whether to do the same thing! 

sourcrates

GP1983 said:

That's fine. So as I understand it, the debt is unenforceable. And as the debt is over 6 years old, nothing they can do will affect my credit history. That's good news. 

It`s important to note, that should they pursue legal action against you, (unlikely, but possible) you must respond to court papers, and defend any claim on the basis of no evidence of liability exists, otherwise they could get a judgement in default if you don`t.

GP1983

sourcrates said:

GP1983 said:

That's fine. So as I understand it, the debt is unenforceable. And as the debt is over 6 years old, nothing they can do will affect my credit history. That's good news. 

It`s important to note, that should they pursue legal action against you, (unlikely, but possible) you must respond to court papers, and defend any claim on the basis of no evidence of liability exists, otherwise they could get a judgement in default if you don`t.

Thank you. I expect them to do so (always expect the worst) and I will reply. 

I have advised them I don’t live in the UK. If the worst came to the worst, I would they notify me before court proceedings? 

If they did not, would I get an email? I worry about not receiving anything in the mail until it’s too late. 

GP1983

summerb64 said:

That’s great, happy days! Could I just ask when the account was roughly opened with barclaycard? I have an account with PRA that was originally a barclaycard from 2011 and just wondering whether to do the same thing! 

Sure. It was roughly 2016. 

GP1983

The plot thickens. 

In PRA’s email to me, they said “I can confirm that we have received the agreement from Barclaycard today and this will be sent out to you shortly.”

I then received an email from them. They include a PDF which starts with a letter from Barclaycard to PRA Group. This says:

Please find enclosed documentation under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for our mutual client as requested. We are unable to provide Varied terms and conditions.

We have enclosed the following documents:

Short form cancellation
Historic terms and conditions 

The second page says:

Please find enclosed documentation under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for our mutual client as requested. We are unable to provide Varied terms and conditions.

We refer to your request for documentation

1974, under which we must provide a copy of the executed agreement \(and any document referred to in it\) and a statement of the account. We need to advise you that, regrettably, we are currently unable to fulfil your request. As such, we are not currently able to enforce our agreement with you and the agreement will remain unenforceable until such time as we are able to fulfil your request.

The subsequent pages are a load of terms and conditions which contain my postal address. 

The heading is:

Barclaycard Conditions

Credit Card Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

So what is this? It looks like a CCA but Barclaycard consider it unenforceable?

Do Barclaycard own this or do PRA? I’m pretty confused. 

sourcrates

Your debt was sold by Barclaycard to PRA Group, who are the current owners.

However, your original agreement and associated paperwork was, and always is, retained by the original creditor, until they choose to dispose of it, which normally happens after 6/7 years with Barclaycard, but can vary.

From what you have written, although PRA Group refer to it as an "agreement", it appears Barclaycard have not been able to produce a compliant credit agreement, nor a copy of their varied terms and conditions, just generic terms and conditions which is why its unenforceable.

Normally what happens in these circumstances is that collection activity will slowly wind down and eventually they will go and bother someone else.

As you live abroad, hypothetically speaking, even if a judgement was granted by default, it would only affect your UK credit file, not the one in your country of residence.

GP1983

Thank you sourcrates and thank you to everyone who has helped me thus far. I really appreciate it. 

PRA has now admitted, in writing, that the debt relating to Barclaycard is unenforceable and that they are unable to take legal action to recover it. 

I have also got them to confirm in writing:

- The amount is unenforceable
- They can not take legal action to recover it 
- That they must only write to me by email or post and that I won't answer phone calls 
- That they understand I am a non-UK resident

I then offered them £500 to close the account as a good will gesture, which I consider more than reasonable considering they have failed to produce a CCA agreement.

Bizarrely, they wrote back to say that they would now only accept 95% of the total owed. I wrote back again, stating that they originally offered me a 65% discount (3 weeks ago) and to relook at their emails. I've just received an email stating that although they offered me that deal 3 weeks ago, they no longer can. 

The whole thing seems bizarre, and who knows what they are thinking. I don't have time for this charade; it's as if they don't want the money. 

Anyway, I obviously have no intention of paying this amount, and my final question is - should I send them a final email and state that I have no intention of paying anything until such time as they produce a valid CCA agreement?

Or shall I just stop paying and playing this bizarre game and wait for them to contact me by email? 

Thanks again.

adclee

Hi,

 I was wondering how you got on with this?

I'm in a very similar position with PRA, they have offered 65% reduction (which is an attractive out) and I'm wondering if I rock the boat will they demand a higher amount again?

I'm just looking at writing a letter requesting CCA after having not responded to any of their letters/emails/call for initial 3 months or so (since they first got in touch).

I think it might have been an Egg->Barclaycard->PRA route as well, so even less likely hood of a paper trail or original agreement.

Thanks.