Harrods Online Refund Policy and lack of online upfront transparency.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

If they advise as part of the cancellation info that the consumer is responsible for the return costs when cancelling the contract then there’s no right to the return costs.

Although they aren’t complying with the correct info regarding the specific product purchased I don’t think this affects the burden of return costs aspects.

Although it would mean they can’t reduce the refund for any excessive handling so a full refund would be due regardless. 

If you have time to pop back and let us know how it turns out it’s always interesting to hear.  

cmthephoenix

Thank you, yes I'll refer to that.  Not sure if I should try and claim the postage also to return it. Harrods do offer a free return normally but as they consider these items 'non returnable don't offer free returns. Maybe I would be pushing it too far.

I think this may be where the issue is - you're trying to "work" a free return. You are entitled to return your online purchase for a full refund of your initial costs provided you haven't used them at all at your own expense under consumer rights if this has been outlined to you. Harrods cannot choose to override UK law for a within UK purchase. If you are trying to use their "free returns" service, this is above and beyond consumer rights and they are entitled to impose their own terms and conditions on the return as long as they are lawful.

makemboy

cmthephoenix said:

Thank you, yes I'll refer to that.  Not sure if I should try and claim the postage also to return it. Harrods do offer a free return normally but as they consider these items 'non returnable don't offer free returns. Maybe I would be pushing it too far.

I think this may be where the issue is - you're trying to "work" a free return. You are entitled to return your online purchase for a full refund of your initial costs provided you haven't used them at all at your own expense under consumer rights if this has been outlined to you. Harrods cannot choose to override UK law for a within UK purchase. If you are trying to use their "free returns" service, this is above and beyond consumer rights and they are entitled to impose their own terms and conditions on the return as long as they are lawful.

Okay. I'll just concentrate on the full refund. Cheers.

Manxman_in_exile

@makemboy - yes, concentrate on getting the refund.  Send it back Special Delivery (or whatever was advised by @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head ) and get proof of posting.

The problem with Harrods T&Cs (like many other sellers I suspect) is that they talk about "returns" and "cancellation" as if they were completely different things and are unconnected.

I think when they talk about "returns" they are ususally referring to their own returns policy which is in addition to your statutory rights.  Their own returns policy gives you an extended return period over Christmas and is free to return - but it does not include certain items such as perfume.

But at 5.3 in their T&Cs they also talk about "cancellation", and correctly outline your statutory right to cancel a distance sale under the regulations.  But they also say that if you want to "cancel" your order in this manner then you must pay for the return - and that is perfectly ok.

"5.3.         Order Cancellation

Depending on where you live, you have a legal right to cancel your order under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 or equivalent consumer legislation in the EU. You are entitled to cancel your order within 14 days of receipt...

Once the products are returned to us, you will receive a full refund, including the original delivery costs. You will be liable to arrange and cover the full cost of returning the order to us. [My bold emphasis]

To exercise this right, please contact our Customer Service team. Please ensure that you state clearly that you wish to cancel, providing your order number, your contact details and details of the products you wish to cancel... "

But where I think Harrods are being particularly naughty is that they qualify term 5.3 by saying that this statutory right to cancel doesn't apply to certain goods  - and they then wrongly give a link to the items excluded under their own returns policy, not the Regulations - and they say that these goods include perfume and fragrances.  That is simply wrong with respect to the legislation.  (And I'm not entirely sure about beauty products either... ).

I think by doing that, that Harrods might be committing an offence under The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (legislation.gov.uk) by misleading consumers as to what products can't be cancelled and returned under consumer protection legislation.

The OP might want to gently raise that issue with Harrods.  Or they might prefer to just get their refund sorted out...

If the OP wanted to take it further officially he'd have to raise it with Trading Standards via CABx.  (But I suspect TS would do absolutely nothing... )

To give Harrods their due, term 5.3 describes the stautory right to cancel quite well, and it tells the consumer that if they want to exercise that right then they must tell Harrods that they are cancelling the order.  The only problem is that they try to include items in the list of excptions that really shouldn't be there.  But I think that might be because they have confused themselves between their own returns policy and the statutory right to cancel.

Two morals to this story:

1.  Harrods own returns policy gives free returns for most items and is extended over Christmas.  So sometimes it might be better to choose to use a seller's own returns policy rather than the stautory right to cancel.

2.  If a seller has their own returns policy but you want to cancel the order under your statutory right to do so, I think you should do what Harrods suggest.  ie you tell the seller you are cancelling the order* and returning it for a refund.  If you initially just tell the seller you are returning the item, there is always the danger that the seller will get diverted down the route of their own returns policy which might not be as beneficial as the right to cancel.

*And I'm sure it would do no harm to quote the legislation you are cancelling under as well.

Manxman_in_exile

makemboy said:

Good morning to those following this thread,

As Harrods T&C's state that the perfume is non returnable I thought I would not be able to claim back postage costs back to them.  However, in the Thank you for shopping with us email initially received when I made the order they clearly state how I can return my order. 

No.  As I read their T&Cs the "free returns service" only applies to their own returns policy and perfume is excluded from that.

5.3 clearly states that if you are cancelling under the legislation, then you must pay for the return.  So I think you are stuck with paying for the return.

Regarding the misleading inclusion of perfume in the list of things that can't be "cancelled", I don't think it's worth bothering about - get your refund sorted out.

(You might want to point out to Harrods they are wrong or you might want to complain to Trading Standards about it, but I doubt it will be anything other than a waste of time...)

makemboy

Manxman_in_exile said:

makemboy said:

Good morning to those following this thread,

As Harrods T&C's state that the perfume is non returnable I thought I would not be able to claim back postage costs back to them.  However, in the Thank you for shopping with us email initially received when I made the order they clearly state how I can return my order. 

No.  As I read their T&Cs the "free returns service" only applies to their own returns policy and perfume is excluded from that.

5.3 clearly states that if you are cancelling under the legislation, then you must pay for the return.  So I think you are stuck with paying for the return.

Regarding the misleading inclusion of perfume in the list of things that can't be "cancelled", I don't think it's worth bothering about - get your refund sorted out.

(You might want to point out to Harrods they are wrong or you might want to complain to Trading Standards about it, but I doubt it will be anything other than a waste of time...)

Yes I have complained to Trading Standards before and my complaint was upheld. Not that it helped me in anyway. Cheers. 

makemboy

Manxman_in_exile said:

@makemboy - yes, concentrate on getting the refund.  Send it back Special Delivery (or whatever was advised by @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head ) and get proof of posting.

The problem with Harrods T&Cs (like many other sellers I suspect) is that they talk about "returns" and "cancellation" as if they were completely different things and are unconnected.

I think when they talk about "returns" they are ususally referring to their own returns policy which is in addition to your statutory rights.  Their own returns policy gives you an extended return period over Christmas and is free to return - but it does not include certain items such as perfume.

But at 5.3 in their T&Cs they also talk about "cancellation", and correctly outline your statutory right to cancel a distance sale under the regulations.  But they also say that if you want to "cancel" your order in this manner then you must pay for the return - and that is perfectly ok.

"5.3.         Order Cancellation

Depending on where you live, you have a legal right to cancel your order under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 or equivalent consumer legislation in the EU. You are entitled to cancel your order within 14 days of receipt...

Once the products are returned to us, you will receive a full refund, including the original delivery costs. You will be liable to arrange and cover the full cost of returning the order to us. [My bold emphasis]

To exercise this right, please contact our Customer Service team. Please ensure that you state clearly that you wish to cancel, providing your order number, your contact details and details of the products you wish to cancel... "

But where I think Harrods are being particularly naughty is that they qualify term 5.3 by saying that this statutory right to cancel doesn't apply to certain goods  - and they then wrongly give a link to the items excluded under their own returns policy, not the Regulations - and they say that these goods include perfume and fragrances.  That is simply wrong with respect to the legislation.  (And I'm not entirely sure about beauty products either... ).

I think by doing that, that Harrods might be committing an offence under The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (legislation.gov.uk) by misleading consumers as to what products can't be cancelled and returned under consumer protection legislation.

The OP might want to gently raise that issue with Harrods.  Or they might prefer to just get their refund sorted out...

If the OP wanted to take it further officially he'd have to raise it with Trading Standards via CABx.  (But I suspect TS would do absolutely nothing... )

To give Harrods their due, term 5.3 describes the stautory right to cancel quite well, and it tells the consumer that if they want to exercise that right then they must tell Harrods that they are cancelling the order.  The only problem is that they try to include items in the list of excptions that really shouldn't be there.  But I think that might be because they have confused themselves between their own returns policy and the statutory right to cancel.

Two morals to this story:

1.  Harrods own returns policy gives free returns for most items and is extended over Christmas.  So sometimes it might be better to choose to use a seller's own returns policy rather than the stautory right to cancel.

2.  If a seller has their own returns policy but you want to cancel the order under your statutory right to do so, I think you should do what Harrods suggest.  ie you tell the seller you are cancelling the order* and returning it for a refund.  If you initially just tell the seller you are returning the item, there is always the danger that the seller will get diverted down the route of their own returns policy which might not be as beneficial as the right to cancel.

*And I'm sure it would do no harm to quote the legislation you are cancelling under as well.

Yes, as you know I made it clear I was canceling under the legislation.  With regard to their last email that provided me a return address but a vague solution outcome I responded with this :-

Thank you for your email,

I will return the merchandise as you have outlined in your email.

With regards a solution my expectations are that you agree with

The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

Section 34

Reimbursement by trader in the event of withdrawal or cancellation. That of course would be a full refund using the same means of payment as I (the consumer) used for the initial transaction.

I would like to be clear that this is what you are agreeing. 

Manxman_in_exile

It actually is all covered within 5.3 of their T&Cs:

1.  you have a legal right to cancel the order within 14 days of receipt
2.  you tell them you are cancelling the order
3.  you arrange and pay for the return using whatever method gives you appropriate protection (I know nothing about that)
4.  they give you a full refund including original delivery costs when they receive the goods back*

The only thing wrong with 5.3 is that they include a link back to their own returns policy which wrongly states that perfume can't be cancelled and returned.  But as their email to you states that they will accept a return of perfume I don't think it's an issue any longer.

All you really need to do - having clearly told them that you are cancelling the order - is send the perfume back to them.  (I see Harrods and others have suggested you use special delivery or whatever but I know nothing about any of those - it's up to you to choose.  Just ensure you obtain proof of posting in case you need it later.)

When you return the goods just make sure you have included enough information so that whoever processes the return knows exactly what you are doing and what you want.  Do not assume that the person processing the return knows the history of it. I always work on the assumption that whoever processes a return has had no input into any prior discussion and needs to have everything explained to them.

Include in the return a copy of the email from Harrods saying they will accept a return of perfume.

Then sit back and wait for the refund.  

*It's potentially slightly more complicated than that but you only need to worry about it if the return gets lost.  Let's hope it doesn't.

makemboy

Okay good news. I have received the email back as a response to my last email below:-

Thank you for your email,

I will return the merchandise as you have outlined in your email.

With regards a solution my expectations are that you agree with

The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

Section 34

Reimbursement by trader in the event of withdrawal or cancellation. That of course would be a full refund using the same means of payment as I (the consumer) used for the initial transaction.

I would like to be clear that this is what you are agreeing. 

their reply:-

Dear Ray,

Thank you for your email.

Once the goods have been received at the warehouse we will then action the refund and update you accordingly.

Manxman_in_exile

That looks like a result then.  Perseverance pays off - even when the problem is caused by your own error!  

I think you've already been referred to s34 of the regulations, but according to the legislation what should happen now is:

"Reimbursement by trader in the event of withdrawal or cancellation

34(4) Reimbursement must be without undue delay, and in any event not later than the time specified in paragraph (5) or (6).

(5) If the contract is a sales contract and the trader has not offered to collect the goods, the time is the end of 14 days after—

(a)the day on which the trader receives the goods back, or

(b)if earlier, the day on which the consumer supplies evidence of having sent the goods back."

34(5)(b) is why it's important to get evidence of sending the goods back to Harrods.