Recent order refunded - what if it then arrives

screech_78

I can assure you that they will realise. We have a whole team dedicated to ensuring tracking details correspond with customer accounts, along with checking payments which may not have went through (but customer received the item anyways). It may take a few months but they will catch up with you. 

And as above, it’s not unsolicited in the slightest. That would only be true if you hadn’t had any prior dealing with the company. It’s an error. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Involuntary bailee is the term for this.

Obligations are to take reasonable care of the goods, let them know you have them and if they fail to collect within a reasonable time you may dispose of them at market value, retain any costs in selling but make no profit and then let them know you have the money for them. 

If they failed to collect the money I believe it would be yours after 6 years although the more time passes the less likely anything would be done.

Undervalued

SergeantBaker said:

InTheShadows said:

SergeantBaker said:

InTheShadows said:

I placed a £400 order (26th Nov) with Very which was refunded (6th Dec) after the 24 hour tracked postage (Royal Snail) was deemed "Lost" by Very. 

I always use a tracking app on my phone and while Very have removed the tracking info on my account - Today the app says that package has now moved to a closer mailing centre and is likely to be here in the next few days.

It may even arrive before it's replacmeent order..

Now I know morally I should jump through hoops, call them, arrange a collection at their cost, etc, etc

But I need this item asap, so will be using the first one that turns up, If I them return the second (replacement order) - that could end up refunding me. 

-

My initial thought was to see if 2 turn up, if they do, leave the second unopened until the new year, and see if they contact me. (If they did, I'd more than happily return it).

But if they have already chalked it off as lost, and aren't going to try and retrieve the item, am I legally allowed obliged do that for them?

I know morally, I should contact them and do my best to further inconvenience myself, to return the item to them. 

But legally, what are my obligations

By not telling them you are acting dishonesty, so if you keep the item it's theft. 

On the other side of the coin, once the item was deemed as lost by Very, the original contract was terminated, and any delivery of that item is unsolicited goods, which if kept, is not theft. 

It's not morally right,  but it's not being dishonest, it's just not going out of my way to be honest.

So surely legally it's not theft, especially if returned to them "if" requested.

Obviously because that request might not come for months or years, I think it's best that I call them and offer for them to arrange collection should the second parcel arrive. .  

You ordered the goods so they're not unsolicited.

Saying nothing and keeping the goods is dishonest and therefore theft. 

It may not specifically be theft. Theft requires the intent to permanently deprive the lawful owner of the item.

So (and I am not recommending this) if the OP were to keep the item safe and unused and make it available for collection if requested, they might not be committing any offence. However, if they do all that what is the point / benefit compared to having it collected now?

Ath_Wat

SergeantBaker said:

InTheShadows said:

SergeantBaker said:

InTheShadows said:

I placed a £400 order (26th Nov) with Very which was refunded (6th Dec) after the 24 hour tracked postage (Royal Snail) was deemed "Lost" by Very. 

I always use a tracking app on my phone and while Very have removed the tracking info on my account - Today the app says that package has now moved to a closer mailing centre and is likely to be here in the next few days.

It may even arrive before it's replacmeent order..

Now I know morally I should jump through hoops, call them, arrange a collection at their cost, etc, etc

But I need this item asap, so will be using the first one that turns up, If I them return the second (replacement order) - that could end up refunding me. 

-

My initial thought was to see if 2 turn up, if they do, leave the second unopened until the new year, and see if they contact me. (If they did, I'd more than happily return it).

But if they have already chalked it off as lost, and aren't going to try and retrieve the item, am I legally allowed obliged do that for them?

I know morally, I should contact them and do my best to further inconvenience myself, to return the item to them. 

But legally, what are my obligations

By not telling them you are acting dishonesty, so if you keep the item it's theft. 

On the other side of the coin, once the item was deemed as lost by Very, the original contract was terminated, and any delivery of that item is unsolicited goods, which if kept, is not theft. 

It's not morally right,  but it's not being dishonest, it's just not going out of my way to be honest.

So surely legally it's not theft, especially if returned to them "if" requested.

Obviously because that request might not come for months or years, I think it's best that I call them and offer for them to arrange collection should the second parcel arrive. .  

You ordered the goods so they're not unsolicited.

Saying nothing and keeping the goods is dishonest and therefore theft. 

Of course it isn't theft.

If someone kicks a ball into my garden, I don't have to tell them it is there, or return it, if they never ask for it.

You don't have to make any effort at all to return someone else's property.  And before anyone mentions "theft by finding", that entails "taking possession" of something you find - not leaving it where they put it, which in this case, is in your house.  If he used it, or sold it, then maybe, but not leaving it where it is and saying nothing.

Whether it is right or not is another matter. 

user1977

In any event, it's pretty academic whether it's "theft" or not - it's not as if the police are likely to be interested.

Ath_Wat

user1977 said:

In any event, it's pretty academic whether it's "theft" or not - it's not as if the police are likely to be interested.

This is true, but it does annoy me when people throw the word theft at people who are doing nothing more than not going out of their own way to rectify someone else's mistake.

pinkshoes

InTheShadows said:

I placed a £400 order (26th Nov) with Very which was refunded (6th Dec) after the 24 hour tracked postage (Royal Snail) was deemed "Lost" by Very. 

I always use a tracking app on my phone and while Very have removed the tracking info on my account - Today the app says that package has now moved to a closer mailing centre and is likely to be here in the next few days.

It may even arrive before it's replacmeent order..

Now I know morally I should jump through hoops, call them, arrange a collection at their cost, etc, etc

But I need this item asap, so will be using the first one that turns up, If I them return the second (replacement order) - that could end up refunding me. 

-

My initial thought was to see if 2 turn up, if they do, leave the second unopened until the new year, and see if they contact me. (If they did, I'd more than happily return it).

But if they have already chalked it off as lost, and aren't going to try and retrieve the item, am I legally allowed obliged do that for them?

I know morally, I should contact them and do my best to further inconvenience myself, to return the item to them. 

But legally, what are my obligations

VERY will eventually chase Royal Mail for a refund, RM will tell them the parcel has arrived, then VERY will charge you for it again.

It would be very straight forward to just let them know if it arrives and let them arrange collection.

Jumblebumble

screech_78 said:

I can assure you that they will realise. We have a whole team dedicated to ensuring tracking details correspond with customer accounts, along with checking payments which may not have went through (but customer received the item anyways). It may take a few months but they will catch up with you. 

And as above, it’s not unsolicited in the slightest. That would only be true if you hadn’t had any prior dealing with the company. It’s an error. 

I am astonished that you have any idea of how well organised Very's team are.
Do share with us how you know that very will realise anything

powerful_Rogue

InTheShadows said:

SergeantBaker said:

InTheShadows said:

I placed a £400 order (26th Nov) with Very which was refunded (6th Dec) after the 24 hour tracked postage (Royal Snail) was deemed "Lost" by Very. 

I always use a tracking app on my phone and while Very have removed the tracking info on my account - Today the app says that package has now moved to a closer mailing centre and is likely to be here in the next few days.

It may even arrive before it's replacmeent order..

Now I know morally I should jump through hoops, call them, arrange a collection at their cost, etc, etc

But I need this item asap, so will be using the first one that turns up, If I them return the second (replacement order) - that could end up refunding me. 

-

My initial thought was to see if 2 turn up, if they do, leave the second unopened until the new year, and see if they contact me. (If they did, I'd more than happily return it).

But if they have already chalked it off as lost, and aren't going to try and retrieve the item, am I legally allowed obliged do that for them?

I know morally, I should contact them and do my best to further inconvenience myself, to return the item to them. 

But legally, what are my obligations

By not telling them you are acting dishonesty, so if you keep the item it's theft. 

On the other side of the coin, once the item was deemed as lost by Very, the original contract was terminated, and any delivery of that item is unsolicited goods, which if kept, is not theft. 

It's not morally right,  but it's not being dishonest, it's just not going out of my way to be honest.

So surely legally it's not theft, especially if returned to them "if" requested.

Obviously because that request might not come for months or years, I think it's best that I call them and offer for them to arrange collection should the second parcel arrive. .  

It really is Christmas!

Nothing for months and months, and then two mentions of 'Unsolicited goods' within as many days.

MalMonroe

I just think you know the right thing to do whether it's legal or moral.  And so do all of us on here. It's all hypothetical at the moment though, right?

If you receive two of the same thing, send one back. That's what your conscience says. Or should, anyway. But do you really need two of them? Whatever they are . . . and reselling something that doesn't really belong to you, isn't that called fencing? Something like that, maybe? Wrong, anyway.