Survey results.... damp

[Deleted User]

Hi all, we have had the survey back on the property we were looking to buy. I was hoping you might be able to share your advice as I don't really know where to go from here.

The house is old (over 200 years old) and has evidence of an injected DPC. It isn't clear if the DPC is all around the property (could only see the evidence clearly from the front when we viewed it). The survey has highlighted that a skirting board has wet rot above the DPC course inside the house along the wall where the DPC is evident. It is clear in the photo provided that there is black mould / rotten wood in this location. 

I'm a bit concerned that the DPC has either failed in this area or the damp has bridged by another means into the property (timbers under the floor or in the walls). This isn't an isolated incident as other walls downstairs have also found to be damp (with similar signs detected) and with the presence of efflorescence on some internal brick walls. 

There seems to be a lot of controversy online about getting damp specialists out to check this as they are likely to 'find' work even if this isn't urgently required. However, the details they have shown on the survey seems to indicate an issue with the existing DPC or a lack of effective damp proofing.

We are going back to ask for the details of the DPC installer and if there are any warranties on this before we go any further, however, should we get this checked by a professional if they aren't able to provide this information? 

If work is required and this proves to be substantial, can this be used to renegotiate the price? We were hoping we could move in and live in it 'as is', however, if this work is needed, this may not be the case which is an inconvenience to us. 

The survey also flagged that the majority of the walls were in need of replastering/repairing due to debonded plaster. Some walls were noticeable when we viewed the property (obvious signs of cracks etc) and we anticipated these needed re-skimming/replastering, however, it seems to be that every room is requiring some form of plaster work. 

Is debonding a concern when it is affecting every room? I understand this can be from the age of the plaster, but this could turn into a huge job to correct especially if this all needs to be stripped back, reboarded and then replastered. If this is the case, would it be fair to ask a plasterer to visit to check what work would be needed and how urgent this is? As with the damp work, could this be grounds to ask for a reduction in price if the work required is substantial? 

We are wondering if the plaster issue is a side effect of the damp highlighted so I'm a bit concerned this could prove to be a much bigger job than we originally thought. If this is the case we would consider walking away as the seller has been quite cagey on these points when we've enquired about them before.

Would appreciate any advice/guidance in this area as it isn't clear what is deemed a 'reasonable' request at this stage. So far, the work highlighted is c.£15k (based on conservative estimates and on items that could be inspected at the time of the survey). Just very wary that there may be other signs under the floor coverings etc which may indicate a bigger issue. 

Thanks!

FreeBear

As there is evidence of a chemical injected DPC, it probably means that there has been a layer of waterproof render/plaster slapped on the walls internally (usually up to a height of ~1.2m). With the report highlighting rot in the skirting, that should tell you everything you need to know about these damp "cures" - It is only a short term "fix" to hide the problem for a few years before it pops up again.

With a ~200 year old property, it is quite likely there was never a DPC in the first place. Damp would have wicked away through the lime mortar & plaster, and the natural draughts would ventilate the property to combat condensation. Sticking plasterboard up and skimming with Multifinish would be a bad idea. Modern plasters do not like being damp (the gypsum is water soluble) and will turn to mush within a few years. You need to strip the walls back to bare brick/stone and use a traditional lime plaster (and Building Regulations would probably require you to add insulation to the walls). Without fixing the root cause of the damp, a lime plaster will be better able to cope with elevated levels of damp without degrading like gypsum would. But even if you can find a plasterer prepared to work with lime, it is going to be an expensive undertaking, especially if you have to undo the damage caused by the previous damp treatments.

TheJP

Much of what you say is what i would expect from a 200+ year old house. What did the surveyor value the house at taking into consideration their findings?

JMA74

From personal experience, buying an 'old' house with solid walls that has had all the breathability taken away will cause you endless headaches unless you just deal with it on day1. 

My external brickwork had been repaired with concrete mortar, the inside was covered with non lime plaster, there was an airbrick on the outside level with a concrete path but it goes straight into a concrete floor, some parts of the house had a bitumen paint applied to stop the water ingress. 

Basically each person had bodged a fix and just added to the problems.   I tried to do the same to be honest as I couldnt face owning up to the massive oversight and by the time i bit the bullet and got it fixed i had spent many miserable autumn, winters, and spings trying to clean mouldy paint and moving furniture to create airflow.  

If you are going to buy the house and dont have funds to sort it when you move in then I advise buying another house

[Deleted User]

FreeBear said:

As there is evidence of a chemical injected DPC, it probably means that there has been a layer of waterproof render/plaster slapped on the walls internally (usually up to a height of ~1.2m). With the report highlighting rot in the skirting, that should tell you everything you need to know about these damp "cures" - It is only a short term "fix" to hide the problem for a few years before it pops up again.

With a ~200 year old property, it is quite likely there was never a DPC in the first place. Damp would have wicked away through the lime mortar & plaster, and the natural draughts would ventilate the property to combat condensation. Sticking plasterboard up and skimming with Multifinish would be a bad idea. Modern plasters do not like being damp (the gypsum is water soluble) and will turn to mush within a few years. You need to strip the walls back to bare brick/stone and use a traditional lime plaster (and Building Regulations would probably require you to add insulation to the walls). Without fixing the root cause of the damp, a lime plaster will be better able to cope with elevated levels of damp without degrading like gypsum would. But even if you can find a plasterer prepared to work with lime, it is going to be an expensive undertaking, especially if you have to undo the damage caused by the previous damp treatments.

Thank you, this was very insightful. I fear they may have used plasterboard/multifinish in a few areas of the property which may already be contributing to the issue. 

We really need to know where the root cause is (whether this is rising damp or due to failed brickwork etc) to gauge what we are dealing with. 

I agree, I think we are dealing with historic 'quick fixes' which have created a much bigger issue overall. We've asked what work has already been undertaken so hoping this may shed some light on the extent of the problem. 

TheJP said:

Much of what you say is what i would expect from a 200+ year old house. What did the surveyor value the house at taking into consideration their findings?

They have valued it £25k less than the listing price. We offered the asking price but it seems to suggest that some areas of maintenance have not been kept up to spec given the age of the property. 

We did expect some issues of this nature and pre-empted some work needed, however, the scale of what has been flagged is a lot more considerable than initially anticipated and has been played down a lot by both the seller and agent. A previous sale has already fallen through so we are very wary of proceeding (we were waiting on the survey to make a decision) they were also pressuring us to proceed without a survey and we insisted on one, we are now starting to wonder if these issues are the reason why! 

JMA74 said:

From personal experience, buying an 'old' house with solid walls that has had all the breathability taken away will cause you endless headaches unless you just deal with it on day1. 

My external brickwork had been repaired with concrete mortar, the inside was covered with non lime plaster, there was an airbrick on the outside level with a concrete path but it goes straight into a concrete floor, some parts of the house had a bitumen paint applied to stop the water ingress. 

Basically each person had bodged a fix and just added to the problems.   I tried to do the same to be honest as I couldnt face owning up to the massive oversight and by the time i bit the bullet and got it fixed i had spent many miserable autumn, winters, and spings trying to clean mouldy paint and moving furniture to create airflow.  

If you are going to buy the house and dont have funds to sort it when you move in then I advise buying another house

Thank you, I think this seems to be the case with this property. It appears to have been sold a few times within the last 15 years, more so than neighbouring properties according to Rightmove so it may be that multiple owners have tackled areas as 'temporary fixes' rather than addressing the real problems as you've mentioned. 

We're very conscious of the time it could take to rectify this more so than the cost. We were hoping to live in it as it is, but it sounds like we may need to factor in spending a few weeks/months (years!) to correct this. Not ideal when moving house as it's stressful enough as it is and at this time of year when the weather is against us! 

We were waiting on the survey to determine what we were dealing with, at this point we are 50/50 whether we will proceed. We had budgeted for work to be done, but this could now be thousands more with every room needing work. We're weighing up whether it is actually worth it and questioning why others before haven't already done this. 

t1redmonkey

@Deleted_User what are the outside walls like?  Are they rendered?  Or stone/brick?  Could be the render has failed, or the outside walls need repointing.

diystarter7

Hi OP

A 200 yr old property I'm good as 100% cert there was no original DPC

The house, does someone live in or lived in it recently and did they have the heating on etc?

What are the floors made of and if wood be prepared for a possible mass of woodworm or worse

Any air bricks and if so are they clear as this will show if air was circulating underside.

You state it sold several times - 3 possible scenarios - very rotten and or rotten neighbors/etc - 3rd scenario, not too much work required and neighbors like us,

No offence, but you've put me off from ever trying to buy it.

Either way, good luck where ever you move

PS: Even if there are warranties, check if the outfit is still around and what is their record on coming back

TheJP

Deleted_User said:

TheJP said:

Much of what you say is what i would expect from a 200+ year old house. What did the surveyor value the house at taking into consideration their findings?

They have valued it £25k less than the listing price. We offered the asking price but it seems to suggest that some areas of maintenance have not been kept up to spec given the age of the property. 

We did expect some issues of this nature and pre-empted some work needed, however, the scale of what has been flagged is a lot more considerable than initially anticipated and has been played down a lot by both the seller and agent. A previous sale has already fallen through so we are very wary of proceeding (we were waiting on the survey to make a decision) they were also pressuring us to proceed without a survey and we insisted on one, we are now starting to wonder if these issues are the reason why! 

Have you tried negotiating and providing the relevant extracts? The other sale could have collapsed due to the survey but they may not have tried to negotiate the costs to bring the property back to spec as it can be a right task even with the funds.

FreeBear

Deleted_User said: We're very conscious of the time it could take to rectify this more so than the cost. We were hoping to live in it as it is, but it sounds like we may need to factor in spending a few weeks/months (years!) to correct this. Not ideal when moving house as it's stressful enough as it is and at this time of year when the weather is against us!

I'm in to year 7 with this place (late 1920s build), and still have a ton of work to do. Fortunately, no damp to sort. Just ~50 years of neglect and a program of insulating the heck out of it where I can. All on a budget of nothing.

LegallyLandlord

How special is this house? 

Damp isn’t inevitable in a 200 year old house. We don’t have any in ours and it’s 18th C. But then it’s on high ground away from a river valley   My rentals are 1890 Victorian terraces and even their cellars are dry (I know mere youngsters at 130 years old, but still). 

It sounds to me like it will be a complete headache and unless this house is unique and the only place you could see yourself living in, and you get a big discount,  I’d keep looking for something that won’t turn into a money pit. 

For more tips on red flags to look for when buying, here’s a blog post. It’s aimed at landlords, but it’s useful for any buyers 

https://theindependentlandlord.com/red-flags-properties/

Noneforit999

I would double, possibly triple that £15k estimate.

From what you have described, it sounds like a money pit. It really depends on your appetite for having work done and the inconvenience its going to bring to your life.

Money aside, the upheaval of having that sort of work done when we were trying to live there just isn't worth it. We have recently had to have most of our walls skimmed which is a fairly straight forward job but its put me off buying anywhere again which needs plastering done. The dust, the mess, the moving of furniture, the having to be out of the house for days...