Substantive to fixed term contract after flexible hours request

lostMoneySaver123

Hello,

I work for the NHS as a speciality doctor. I currently work full time (40 hours) but do this over 4 days (I currently have Fridays off for childcare). I have a substantive SAS (speciality and associate specialist) contract and have been in post for 5 years.

I have been offered a full time role (34 hours) in industry. I wish to continue with 4-8 hours still in my current NHS role. I just spoke to my NHS boss today and he is currently talking with HR. He says that for me to have reduced hours I have to go from a substantive post to a 24 month fixed contract post. I was told that at 24 months either myself or the department I work in can terminate the contract if either of us feel the working situation is “not working”.

Is it legal for my department in the NHS to force me to a fixed termed contract just because I want to reduce my hours? Does it not go against Flexible working legislations?

Many thanks

Elliott.T123

I do not have experience of NHS contracts specifically but as a general rule that would not be against any regulations.

What they are effectively saying is that your current role is unable to drop from 40 hours to 4-8 hours and so instead you will effectively need to resign and then reapply for a new role which happens to be a 24 month FTC, they are cutting out all of the paperwork etc by moving you straight across onto a new contract but that is effectively what they are suggesting you do. 

40 hours dropping down to 4-8 is a huge drop and is hard to argue as a reasonable adjustment, 40 to say 36, dropping an hour a day fine, but 4 long days down to a half day per week, that totally changes what the trust can offer patients and so is not a reasonable change.

Undervalued

lostMoneySaver123 said:

Hello,

I work for the NHS as a speciality doctor. I currently work full time (40 hours) but do this over 4 days (I currently have Fridays off for childcare). I have a substantive SAS (speciality and associate specialist) contract and have been in post for 5 years.

I have been offered a full time role (34 hours) in industry. I wish to continue with 4-8 hours still in my current NHS role. I just spoke to my NHS boss today and he is currently talking with HR. He says that for me to have reduced hours I have to go from a substantive post to a 24 month fixed contract post. I was told that at 24 months either myself or the department I work in can terminate the contract if either of us feel the working situation is “not working”.

Is it legal for my department in the NHS to force me to a fixed termed contract just because I want to reduce my hours? Does it not go against Flexible working legislations?

Many thanks

Probably not.

You have a right to request flexible working but an employer can generally fairly easily turn the request down for business reasons. What you are asking for is a huge change, well beyond what would usually be classed as flexible working, You certainly don't have an automatic right to reduce your hours by 80 to 90%.

It may suit them at the moment to continue to buy a few hours of your expert time whilst the assess how to best service the majority of the time you will no longer providing. However longer term that may better be done by somebody full time and I think it is understandable that they want to keep their options open.

diystarter7

Hello

I'm reading as if they are giving you a choice and the choice is yours ?

I'm safely guessing that in roles like the one you have, flexibility is much more difficult to manage

Do you have any suggestions on how they could meet your request that would provide the coverage the employer is looking for
without too much additional effort/cost and or negative effect on the service?

Is there anyone else in a specialist role and in your view that are getting the flexibility you are seeking?

Have you consulted your union rep as often they have a lot of experience in areas like this as many working parents want flexibility?

Having stated the above and a massive fan of Flexi working and fairness, from what you have said I doubt you will get what you are hoping for but worth a good try.

Good luck

Edit - lol, I recall the time I challenged my HR clowns with working certain days/hours etc
 and one of the HR staff blurted out, " flexible working is a privilege," and I nearly explonded lol, but thankfully my union rep nudged me. They were right of course and in the end I got 90% of what I wanted so it was fair.

Ath_Wat

lostMoneySaver123 said:

Is it legal for my department in the NHS to force me to a fixed termed contract just because I want to reduce my hours? Does it not go against Flexible working legislations?

There's a big difference between "just because I want to reduce my hours" and "just because I want to go from 40 hours a week to 4".

TBagpuss

lostMoneySaver123 said:

Hello,

I work for the NHS as a speciality doctor. I currently work full time (40 hours) but do this over 4 days (I currently have Fridays off for childcare). I have a substantive SAS (speciality and associate specialist) contract and have been in post for 5 years.

I have been offered a full time role (34 hours) in industry. I wish to continue with 4-8 hours still in my current NHS role. I just spoke to my NHS boss today and he is currently talking with HR. He says that for me to have reduced hours I have to go from a substantive post to a 24 month fixed contract post. I was told that at 24 months either myself or the department I work in can terminate the contract if either of us feel the working situation is “not working”.

Is it legal for my department in the NHS to force me to a fixed termed contract just because I want to reduce my hours? Does it not go against Flexible working legislations?

Many thanks

Not as far as I am aware, no.

You've made a flexible working request. You are asking to very significantly reduce the numbr of hours your work. It soundsas though they are declining the flexible working request (which isn't surprising given that you are looking to reduce your hours by 80%) but are offering you a different role and different contract. 

They are not forcing you into it.  You can chose to continue in your current role and hours, and it sounds as though they have madethe effort to find a way to offer you a way of doing the hours tthat you want.

I am not familiar with NHS contrnacts but I suspect that there are 'business reasons' behind it - possibly  that in order to cover your current hours they will need to take on a new person in a 'substantive' role and probably have limites on how many such roles they can offer. Of course you can ask for clarity. 

2 years for the fied term post is a reasonable legth of time, it isn't as though they were offering you the hours n a month to month contrtact or something where they could withdraw it at any time. 

However, as others have said, your union is probably a good placeto start if you want advice, or an employment lawyer.

Savvy_Sue

TBagpuss said:

2 years for the fied term post is a reasonable legth of time, it isn't as though they were offering you the hours n a month to month contrtact or something where they could withdraw it at any time. 

However, as others have said, your union is probably a good placeto start if you want advice, or an employment lawyer.

I'd agree that the 2 year offer is a good one from their side: you'll want to see if you can maintain your continuous period of employment with that because it is, as said, a completely new contract rather than an adjustment to your hours. If you don't get it as a continuous period, then they can end your employment with very little protection for you. 

And Union, very sensible ...