Parking on a private road with a No parking sign close by. Grace period?

Vism

Hi,

If you park for 4 minutes on a private road that has a No parking sign does the grace period apply?
Would a ticket for a stay of 4 minutes be unreasonable? 

Thanks.

Umkomaas

Depends on the parking firm and to which trade association (ATA) they belong. There are different words about this in each Code of Practice so check those out, but ultimately the PPC will do pretty much as they want to, this is a totally unregulated sector, and it may take a judge to sort it all out if the PPC decides to sue at any time in the six years following the parking incident. 

Are you being pursued, if so which PPC?

Vism

Thanks Umkomaas.

It's DCB legal and UK parking control.

Just read your post about them, interesting. 

I've done the acknowledgement of claim, I'm currently writing my defence using the newbies template. 

Umkomaas

Could you give us the Date of Issue shown on the court claim form and the date on which you acknowledged it please. Forum regular @KeithP will be along to give you some further advice on the early stages of getting your defence underway. 

Vism

Date of issue was 31st October. 
AOS submitted via the MCOL online service on the 16th November. 

KeithP

Vism said:

Date of issue was 31st October. 
AOS submitted via the MCOL online service on the 16th November. 

With a Claim Issue Date of 31st October, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 5th December 2022 to file your Defence.

That's just a week away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Vism

Hi @Umkomaas and @KeithP.

Is it the done thing to post my defence here so people can offer advice/tweaks?

Cheers, 

Andy.

KeithP

Vism said:

Hi @Umkomaas and @KeithP.

Is it the done thing to post my defence here so people can offer advice/tweaks?

Cheers, 

Andy.

Yes. From reading other threads you will have seen that usually happens, but it is up to you.

But please... there is no need to show us all those paragraphs from the template Defence that you have not changed.

Mouse007

Please do, why did you stop for 4 minutes on private land?

Vism

OK, here's my defence, without pics as they don't copy. I was a little unsure what should be in the defence and what should be in the witness statement. Any thoughts gratefully received.

3. The defendant states that on the 20/02/2020 he visited Euro car parts on Hiron Way, Warwick to collect a pre-ordered item. On arriving he attempted to get into the company’s car park but due to the parking spaces being narrow and cars being parked awkwardly he wouldn’t get into the car park easily and getting out would be worse. Indeed, he scraped the drivers front wheel in the attempt to do so. Having failed he backed out and parked on Hiron Way as shown by the picture below.

 

 

He immediately got out of the car and entered the shop some 20 metres away. Inside was one person who had just completed his purchase and the defendant then asked for the item for collection, this was presented, with invoice and he paid for the item. With a time of 14:01 on the invoice (below), this whole process from leaving the car took no more than four minutes, the defendant stated this on his original appeal to the parking company. The time on the computer that produced the invoice has been confirmed to use a central time server for its clock and that matches the defendants phone.

As the defendant was about to take his item someone came in and announced that a car outside was receiving a parking ticket, was it anyone here. He went outside immediately to find a person taking down the cars details and entering them into a handheld device. Despite his protestations, she refused to accept he was leaving and placed the ticket on the windscreen.

In the picture (above) you can see the no parking sign far in the background, it is also shown below (taken by the parking warden). Please note how it is written in subtle colours with no black/yellow chevrons to make it noticeable. There was another sign about the same distance in front of the car but that is not shown.

 

 

There was also no signage on the entrance to the private road from the public highway (pictured below).

 

 

 

However, notwithstanding the above the defendant would also make the claim that UKPC changed the time on the fine as it was produced at 14:05, 4 minutes after the time he walked out of Euro Car Parts, presumably to make the offence look worse than it was. They have done this before-

 

https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/2015-09-uk-parking-control-ticket/

 

The defendant argues that this ticket is completely inappropriate due to poor signage, both at the parking location and on the entrance to the private road, lack of double yellow lines and the length of time parked, real or imaginary.

KeithP

Vism said:

OK, here's my defence, without pics as they don't copy. I was a little unsure what should be in the defence and what should be in the witness statement.

A Defence contains legal argument. Evidence supporting that argument comes later - with your Witness Statement.

In fact, pretty much everything you have stated there should be in your Witness Statement.

You have no legal argument there at all.

Have you looked at any other Defences? There are hundreds, if not thousands, on this forum.