Changes to Fidelity fees Jan/Feb 2023

InvesterJones

adindas said:

EthicsGradient said:

So your "point" is that someone who had already chosen a product very unsuitable for their (fairly rare) needs will find this not quite as bad for them as it was before. Well done. 

I am not saying that I simply rebuff the comment which is stating Fidelity is "extremely competitive" just by reducing the share dealing fee from £10 to £7.50. People will need to access the suitability of the product with their needs. People who are just doing drawdown, no need for share dealing no drawdown fee platform for SIIP is a no brainer. It is good to see when other people are partially subsidising you, isn't it ??

But those who want to do many share dealing or trading within SIIP fidelity is far from competitive. Also keep in mind the people interest in investing platform are not just the existing customers or people who simply want to do a drawdown. There are newcomers out there might want to start SIIP with different nature

InvesterJones said:

OK yes, this being the savings and investment board I thought we were talking about savings and investments, not trading. I agree the fidelity platform isn't the best suited for short term trading. I don't think they intend it to be either.

Albermarle said:

By far the majority of posters on this forum (regular and new) are buy and hold type investors, with minimal regular buying and selling, whether in drawdown or not. So it makes sense that the comments about Fidelity revolve around this type of investor, as that would be the typical reader.

DCA is a well known recognisable strategy in investing (not just trading) especially in the bear market. Also someone might need to do weekly DCA due to getting paid weekly, count that how much it translates into fee. Let alone if the amount to be DCAed is tiny, say £50-£100 a week count that how it translates into percentage to overall investment return.

DCA is fine - just DCA to a non-exchange traded fund and then quarterly transfer it to an ETF - you'll only pay £30 a year on the trades, the bulk of the money will have service fee capped at £90 (across all fidelity accounts) and you'll only pay the normal service fee on a small and slowly incrementing amount that gets reset to 0 each quarter.

granta

InvesterJones said:

adindas said:

EthicsGradient said:

So your "point" is that someone who had already chosen a product very unsuitable for their (fairly rare) needs will find this not quite as bad for them as it was before. Well done. 

I am not saying that I simply rebuff the comment which is stating Fidelity is "extremely competitive" just by reducing the share dealing fee from £10 to £7.50. People will need to access the suitability of the product with their needs. People who are just doing drawdown, no need for share dealing no drawdown fee platform for SIIP is a no brainer. It is good to see when other people are partially subsidising you, isn't it ??

But those who want to do many share dealing or trading within SIIP fidelity is far from competitive. Also keep in mind the people interest in investing platform are not just the existing customers or people who simply want to do a drawdown. There are newcomers out there might want to start SIIP with different nature

InvesterJones said:

OK yes, this being the savings and investment board I thought we were talking about savings and investments, not trading. I agree the fidelity platform isn't the best suited for short term trading. I don't think they intend it to be either.

Albermarle said:

By far the majority of posters on this forum (regular and new) are buy and hold type investors, with minimal regular buying and selling, whether in drawdown or not. So it makes sense that the comments about Fidelity revolve around this type of investor, as that would be the typical reader.

DCA is a well known recognisable strategy in investing (not just trading) especially in the bear market. Also someone might need to do weekly DCA due to getting paid weekly, count that how much it translates into fee. Let alone if the amount to be DCAed is tiny, say £50-£100 a week count that how it translates into percentage to overall investment return.

DCA is fine - just DCA to a non-exchange traded fund and then quarterly transfer it to an ETF - you'll only pay £30 a year on the trades, the bulk of the money will have service fee capped at £90 (across all fidelity accounts) and you'll only pay the normal service fee on a small and slowly incrementing amount that gets reset to 0 each quarter.

I'm quite new to Fidelity too and transferred into a 100% ETF portfolio following helpful info here (from Albermarle I recall) 

You've answered my query about the conundrum I've discovered re trading charges for buying regularly into ETFs and solving that buying a tracker fund equivalent and then converting to an ETF. I was thinking of doing this once or twice a year rather than every quarter to save on charges.
I can't quite work the maths but is quarterly the optimum way of doing it?

I was just going to buy HSBC ALL World and then convert to HMWO or something similar.

masonic

granta said:

InvesterJones said:

adindas said:

EthicsGradient said:

So your "point" is that someone who had already chosen a product very unsuitable for their (fairly rare) needs will find this not quite as bad for them as it was before. Well done. 

I am not saying that I simply rebuff the comment which is stating Fidelity is "extremely competitive" just by reducing the share dealing fee from £10 to £7.50. People will need to access the suitability of the product with their needs. People who are just doing drawdown, no need for share dealing no drawdown fee platform for SIIP is a no brainer. It is good to see when other people are partially subsidising you, isn't it ??

But those who want to do many share dealing or trading within SIIP fidelity is far from competitive. Also keep in mind the people interest in investing platform are not just the existing customers or people who simply want to do a drawdown. There are newcomers out there might want to start SIIP with different nature

InvesterJones said:

OK yes, this being the savings and investment board I thought we were talking about savings and investments, not trading. I agree the fidelity platform isn't the best suited for short term trading. I don't think they intend it to be either.

Albermarle said:

By far the majority of posters on this forum (regular and new) are buy and hold type investors, with minimal regular buying and selling, whether in drawdown or not. So it makes sense that the comments about Fidelity revolve around this type of investor, as that would be the typical reader.

DCA is a well known recognisable strategy in investing (not just trading) especially in the bear market. Also someone might need to do weekly DCA due to getting paid weekly, count that how much it translates into fee. Let alone if the amount to be DCAed is tiny, say £50-£100 a week count that how it translates into percentage to overall investment return.

DCA is fine - just DCA to a non-exchange traded fund and then quarterly transfer it to an ETF - you'll only pay £30 a year on the trades, the bulk of the money will have service fee capped at £90 (across all fidelity accounts) and you'll only pay the normal service fee on a small and slowly incrementing amount that gets reset to 0 each quarter.

I'm quite new to Fidelity too and transferred into a 100% ETF portfolio following helpful info here (from Albermarle I recall) 

You've answered my query about the conundrum I've discovered re trading charges for buying regularly into ETFs and solving that buying a tracker fund equivalent and then converting to an ETF. I was thinking of doing this once or twice a year rather than every quarter to save on charges.
I can't quite work the maths but is quarterly the optimum way of doing it?

I was just going to buy HSBC ALL World and then convert to HMWO or something similar.

With the 0.35% annual fee, drip feeding up to about £4k over a year would equate to roughly £7.50 in charges, and that £4k would cost £14 per year thereafter. Scale as needed to a suitable threshold where the £7.50 trading fee seems justified. It's worth also factoring in a day or two out of the market, which more often than not will move against you.

granta

masonic said:

granta said:

InvesterJones said:

adindas said:

EthicsGradient said:

So your "point" is that someone who had already chosen a product very unsuitable for their (fairly rare) needs will find this not quite as bad for them as it was before. Well done. 

I am not saying that I simply rebuff the comment which is stating Fidelity is "extremely competitive" just by reducing the share dealing fee from £10 to £7.50. People will need to access the suitability of the product with their needs. People who are just doing drawdown, no need for share dealing no drawdown fee platform for SIIP is a no brainer. It is good to see when other people are partially subsidising you, isn't it ??

But those who want to do many share dealing or trading within SIIP fidelity is far from competitive. Also keep in mind the people interest in investing platform are not just the existing customers or people who simply want to do a drawdown. There are newcomers out there might want to start SIIP with different nature

InvesterJones said:

OK yes, this being the savings and investment board I thought we were talking about savings and investments, not trading. I agree the fidelity platform isn't the best suited for short term trading. I don't think they intend it to be either.

Albermarle said:

By far the majority of posters on this forum (regular and new) are buy and hold type investors, with minimal regular buying and selling, whether in drawdown or not. So it makes sense that the comments about Fidelity revolve around this type of investor, as that would be the typical reader.

DCA is a well known recognisable strategy in investing (not just trading) especially in the bear market. Also someone might need to do weekly DCA due to getting paid weekly, count that how much it translates into fee. Let alone if the amount to be DCAed is tiny, say £50-£100 a week count that how it translates into percentage to overall investment return.

DCA is fine - just DCA to a non-exchange traded fund and then quarterly transfer it to an ETF - you'll only pay £30 a year on the trades, the bulk of the money will have service fee capped at £90 (across all fidelity accounts) and you'll only pay the normal service fee on a small and slowly incrementing amount that gets reset to 0 each quarter.

I'm quite new to Fidelity too and transferred into a 100% ETF portfolio following helpful info here (from Albermarle I recall) 

You've answered my query about the conundrum I've discovered re trading charges for buying regularly into ETFs and solving that buying a tracker fund equivalent and then converting to an ETF. I was thinking of doing this once or twice a year rather than every quarter to save on charges.
I can't quite work the maths but is quarterly the optimum way of doing it?

I was just going to buy HSBC ALL World and then convert to HMWO or something similar.

With the 0.35% annual fee, drip feeding up to about £4k over a year would equate to roughly £7.50 in charges, and that £4k would cost £14 per year thereafter. Scale as needed to a suitable threshold where the £7.50 trading fee seems justified. It's worth also factoring in a day or two out of the market, which more often than not will move against you.

Thanks. That is a good point about the market movement. In which case, 12 x £1.50 monthly regular investing is surely the most cost-effective for an ETF? And then using a fund for residual dividends that I convert once or twice a year.

masonic

granta said:

masonic said:

granta said:

InvesterJones said:

adindas said:

EthicsGradient said:

So your "point" is that someone who had already chosen a product very unsuitable for their (fairly rare) needs will find this not quite as bad for them as it was before. Well done. 

I am not saying that I simply rebuff the comment which is stating Fidelity is "extremely competitive" just by reducing the share dealing fee from £10 to £7.50. People will need to access the suitability of the product with their needs. People who are just doing drawdown, no need for share dealing no drawdown fee platform for SIIP is a no brainer. It is good to see when other people are partially subsidising you, isn't it ??

But those who want to do many share dealing or trading within SIIP fidelity is far from competitive. Also keep in mind the people interest in investing platform are not just the existing customers or people who simply want to do a drawdown. There are newcomers out there might want to start SIIP with different nature

InvesterJones said:

OK yes, this being the savings and investment board I thought we were talking about savings and investments, not trading. I agree the fidelity platform isn't the best suited for short term trading. I don't think they intend it to be either.

Albermarle said:

By far the majority of posters on this forum (regular and new) are buy and hold type investors, with minimal regular buying and selling, whether in drawdown or not. So it makes sense that the comments about Fidelity revolve around this type of investor, as that would be the typical reader.

DCA is a well known recognisable strategy in investing (not just trading) especially in the bear market. Also someone might need to do weekly DCA due to getting paid weekly, count that how much it translates into fee. Let alone if the amount to be DCAed is tiny, say £50-£100 a week count that how it translates into percentage to overall investment return.

DCA is fine - just DCA to a non-exchange traded fund and then quarterly transfer it to an ETF - you'll only pay £30 a year on the trades, the bulk of the money will have service fee capped at £90 (across all fidelity accounts) and you'll only pay the normal service fee on a small and slowly incrementing amount that gets reset to 0 each quarter.

I'm quite new to Fidelity too and transferred into a 100% ETF portfolio following helpful info here (from Albermarle I recall) 

You've answered my query about the conundrum I've discovered re trading charges for buying regularly into ETFs and solving that buying a tracker fund equivalent and then converting to an ETF. I was thinking of doing this once or twice a year rather than every quarter to save on charges.
I can't quite work the maths but is quarterly the optimum way of doing it?

I was just going to buy HSBC ALL World and then convert to HMWO or something similar.

With the 0.35% annual fee, drip feeding up to about £4k over a year would equate to roughly £7.50 in charges, and that £4k would cost £14 per year thereafter. Scale as needed to a suitable threshold where the £7.50 trading fee seems justified. It's worth also factoring in a day or two out of the market, which more often than not will move against you.

Thanks. That is a good point about the market movement. In which case, 12 x £1.50 monthly regular investing is surely the most cost-effective for an ETF? And then using a fund for residual dividends that I convert once or twice a year.

It really depends how much you invest per month. I wouldn't pay £1.50 for a £50 investment. That would be equivalent to a 3% initial charge. If a dividend is paid quarterly, then it would cost £6 per year to use the regular reinvest feature vs £7.50 to roll up into a fund and convert once a year. If you have the option, you could go for an accumulating ETF, but sometimes these are less liquid and have higher spread.

granta

masonic said:

granta said:

masonic said:

granta said:

InvesterJones said:

adindas said:

EthicsGradient said:

So your "point" is that someone who had already chosen a product very unsuitable for their (fairly rare) needs will find this not quite as bad for them as it was before. Well done. 

I am not saying that I simply rebuff the comment which is stating Fidelity is "extremely competitive" just by reducing the share dealing fee from £10 to £7.50. People will need to access the suitability of the product with their needs. People who are just doing drawdown, no need for share dealing no drawdown fee platform for SIIP is a no brainer. It is good to see when other people are partially subsidising you, isn't it ??

But those who want to do many share dealing or trading within SIIP fidelity is far from competitive. Also keep in mind the people interest in investing platform are not just the existing customers or people who simply want to do a drawdown. There are newcomers out there might want to start SIIP with different nature

InvesterJones said:

OK yes, this being the savings and investment board I thought we were talking about savings and investments, not trading. I agree the fidelity platform isn't the best suited for short term trading. I don't think they intend it to be either.

Albermarle said:

By far the majority of posters on this forum (regular and new) are buy and hold type investors, with minimal regular buying and selling, whether in drawdown or not. So it makes sense that the comments about Fidelity revolve around this type of investor, as that would be the typical reader.

DCA is a well known recognisable strategy in investing (not just trading) especially in the bear market. Also someone might need to do weekly DCA due to getting paid weekly, count that how much it translates into fee. Let alone if the amount to be DCAed is tiny, say £50-£100 a week count that how it translates into percentage to overall investment return.

DCA is fine - just DCA to a non-exchange traded fund and then quarterly transfer it to an ETF - you'll only pay £30 a year on the trades, the bulk of the money will have service fee capped at £90 (across all fidelity accounts) and you'll only pay the normal service fee on a small and slowly incrementing amount that gets reset to 0 each quarter.

I'm quite new to Fidelity too and transferred into a 100% ETF portfolio following helpful info here (from Albermarle I recall) 

You've answered my query about the conundrum I've discovered re trading charges for buying regularly into ETFs and solving that buying a tracker fund equivalent and then converting to an ETF. I was thinking of doing this once or twice a year rather than every quarter to save on charges.
I can't quite work the maths but is quarterly the optimum way of doing it?

I was just going to buy HSBC ALL World and then convert to HMWO or something similar.

With the 0.35% annual fee, drip feeding up to about £4k over a year would equate to roughly £7.50 in charges, and that £4k would cost £14 per year thereafter. Scale as needed to a suitable threshold where the £7.50 trading fee seems justified. It's worth also factoring in a day or two out of the market, which more often than not will move against you.

Thanks. That is a good point about the market movement. In which case, 12 x £1.50 monthly regular investing is surely the most cost-effective for an ETF? And then using a fund for residual dividends that I convert once or twice a year.

It really depends how much you invest per month. I wouldn't pay £1.50 for a £50 investment. That would be equivalent to a 3% initial charge. If a dividend is paid quarterly, then it would cost £6 per year to use the regular reinvest feature vs £7.50 to roll up into a fund and convert once a year. If you have the option, you could go for an accumulating ETF, but sometimes these are less liquid and have higher spread.

Most likely £1-£2k per month in SIPP and ISA so perhaps sticking with regular investing direct into ETF is sensible. Thanks, very useful as this the most concrete I've come to working out the maths! But makes sense to use a fund for the divis (which tend to be £100-£200 each time).
I have VHVG as an accumulating ETF for new investments but my existing HMWO and VEVE, I'm reluctant to convert these as will probably lose more on market movements.

For new money, someone also suggested the use of a lower cost platform (e.g. Vanguard) to invest ad do an annual transfer.

I did think the £45 cap was too good to last!!I wonder how long before HL ups their £45 cap.

Alistair31

I wonder how long before HL ups their £45 cap.

Isn’t their cap £200?

granta

Alistair31 said:

I wonder how long before HL ups their £45 cap.

Isn’t their cap £200?

£200 for SIPP and £45 for ISA. Which makes the Fidelity option much more competitive (for now)

masonic

granta said:
I have VHVG as an accumulating ETF for new investments but my existing HMWO and VEVE, I'm reluctant to convert these as will probably lose more on market movements.

It's handy to retain something dividend paying as a means of replenishing cash balance for fees. More tax efficient to pay fees out out of the SIPP where the money has benefited from tax relief on the way in.

Last time I looked at VHVG it was still quite small and less liquid than VEVE, but it does look a lot more viable now.

granta

masonic said:

granta said:
I have VHVG as an accumulating ETF for new investments but my existing HMWO and VEVE, I'm reluctant to convert these as will probably lose more on market movements.

It's handy to retain something dividend paying as a means of replenishing cash balance for fees. More tax efficient to pay fees out out of the SIPP where the money has benefited from tax relief on the way in.

Last time I looked at VHVG it was still quite small and less liquid than VEVE, but it does look a lot more viable now.

Yes I had heard of people here paying fees from within the SIPP. I had assumed that it was better to pay from outside the SIPP so that I could maximise by contributions. Am a basic rate tax payer and was hoping to put in the maximum for this tax year so if I don't reinvest the dividend and use it for fees, is that not worse?