Timber Garage renovation, focusing on walls now - Need some advice please..

sujsuj

Section62 said:

MoreProbs said:

This is my concern.

...And it's clear from that photo that the damp causing the problem inside is focussed along that brick face - quite possibly seeping back out from the garage as the outside dries.

And the other issue is that the plywood is flush level with the brick, so any rain run-off will land on top of the brick rather than being diverted past it. Any water coming down that wall will have a great opportunity for making its way in there too, or at least enough to keep the baseplate nicely damp and rotting.

Unless I've got it completely wrong, that picture is of the inside of the garage. It is also probably the section where there is plywood on the inside of a timber frame, but nothing at all on the outside.  The outside needs cladding to keep the rain out.  The lack of external cladding would be a more obvious source of the water seen on the floor along that edge of the garage.

However, I also wouldn't rule out the leaking/missing roof contributing to some of the water staining seen on the right hand side of the picture. It is difficult to say without seeing it in real life, which is why I think some help from a professional on-site would be valuable.  To a degree we can only guess from the photos we've seen.

Yes correct, this photo is from inside left Yes plywood inside of timber framer. There was plywood on the other-side as well which I removed now and soon will be putting timber soon.

Missing roof sorted  2 weeks now. So more leaking because of it.

sujsuj

MoreProbs said:

This is my concern.

What I see there is not a concrete slab that's causing problems by having groundwater pooling around it, requiring a drain to be dug around its perimeter - although I totally agree that should also be done. But, two other issues; one is that any rain that runs down that wall and lands on the exposed rim of slab will continue to have the opportunity to seep through that single row of brick.

IF the mortar lines are compromised, or IF the bond between the bricks and the slab is ditto, then damp/water will continue to make its way through there regardless of how deep a trench is dug around this garage. Unless that exposed rim of slab and the row of brick is sealed on the outside, which would be a simple task. And it's clear from that photo that the damp causing the problem inside is focussed along that brick face - quite possibly seeping back out from the garage as the outside dries.

And the other issue is that the plywood is flush level with the brick, so any rain run-off will land on top of the brick rather than being diverted past it. Any water coming down that wall will have a great opportunity for making its way in there too, or at least enough to keep the baseplate nicely damp and rotting.

I will not repeat my twofold solution, except to say it's what I would do. Threefold - yes, dig that trench.

Rain is no more run down the wall. It will be completely fixed soon at the moment underlay extends beyond edge so no rain water pouring on the timber.

Is there a chance new bricks could protect better from dampness than old bricks..??

Yes dampness is focused along brick line ..

I am going to replace old timber at the bottom and replace with new timber, also will take it to lowest point I can with DPC layer inside . So even water drops will not go inside.

Yes I have 6 step solution now..

1. Replace rotten timber at the bottom with fresh timber in all 3 sides
2. Just the bottom layer timber will be bitumen painted in all 3 sides
3. Damp proof layer inside  external timber cladding in all 3 sides  just covering last cladding layer
4. Gravel around  3 sides  to  stop water getting inside.
5. Plastering outer brick and replace with new bricks where ever needed
6. Bitumen coating over plastering once its dried

Any of these is really stupid..? Any more things to add?

Rather than taking inputs from one person, I prefer to take as many inputs I can. Thanks

sujsuj

Section62 said:

MoreProbs said:

My suggestion to tank was based on sujsuj's suspicion that the water is coming through the mortar lines or even under the bricks - both are very possible. Rainwater running down the walls and landing on the outer face of the bricks and on that rim of slab before draining away, would likely continue to 'capillary' in unless it's sealed on the outside. 
(Mind you, it does also look as tho' water is coming in on the TOPS of the bricks too.)

Bearing in mind the roof has been leaking, and partially removed for replacement for a period of time in some of the wettest weather we've had all year, there's no real way of being sure where the water/damp is coming from. It could be just as likely to have come through the leaking roof and is trying to drain away.

Hence the need to wait for warmer drier weather.  When there is less water all round it will be easier to spot where it is coming from and treat that issue, rather than having to throw an (expensive) kitchen sink at the problem.

Unfortunately the OP isn't keen on taking advice, which is a shame because the whole idea of this site is giving and receiving moneysaving advice.  Haphazardly applying damproofing materials all over the garage base in the hope of a cure isn't moneysaving, even if the labour costs are low.

Rather than taking inputs from one person, I prefer to take as many inputs I can. Thats the advantage of having a forum like this. I have taken your inputs as well.

sujsuj

Apodemus said:

Step away from the tanking and slurry! 

Just don't waste your money on needless "fixes" for a problem you don't have.  It's a garage!  As long as you keep most of the water away from the building, let it work as it was intended.  The air will flow through it and any dampness in the fabric that accumulates in the wettest periods, will dry away again when the rain stops.  Anything you slap on to it will stop that from happening as efficiently.  As Doozergirl says, anywhere that you are replacing the sole plate, you could put some DPC between the brick and the wood - but I wouldn't  go looking for problems and wouldn't be replacing all the sole plates just to put in a DPC if the wood is otherwise fine. 

you could put some DPC between the brick and the wood --> Yes this is planned as well. I am removing only rotten timber which are in the lowest layer.

sujsuj

Doozergirl said:

We can see what's wrong with it. 

If you just rebuild the thing properly bearing in mind what you'd do for regs - most of everything else it is you're saying @MoreProbs - distance to ground, breather membrane, batons, overhang, drainage etc it isn't going to get in and up though the bricks anymore.  

We're just trying to get the OP away from the idea of slapping waterproofing all over stuff.  

If that was a house, we'd be telling them to clear the earth away.  We'd not suggest any additional waterproofing.  Quite the opposite.

distance to ground, breather membrane, batons, overhang, drainage etc it isn't going to get in and up though the bricks anymore.
 
Step by step  I will doing most of these..

Section62

sujsuj said:

Yes I have 6 step solution now..

1. Replace rotten timber at the bottom with fresh timber in all 3 sides
2. Just the bottom layer timber will be bitumen painted in all 3 sides
3. Damp proof layer inside  external timber cladding in all 3 sides  just covering last cladding layer
4. Gravel around  3 sides  to  stop water getting inside.
5. Plastering outer brick and replace with new bricks where ever needed
6. Bitumen coating over plastering once its dried

Any of these is really stupid..? Any more things to add?

Rather than taking inputs from one person, I prefer to take as many inputs I can. Thanks

Essentially, with the exception of point 4, doing this would be the opposite of the advice of the forum members who work in the building/construction industry who have contributed their thoughts to the thread.

Doozergirl

sujsuj said:

MoreProbs said:

This is my concern.

What I see there is not a concrete slab that's causing problems by having groundwater pooling around it, requiring a drain to be dug around its perimeter - although I totally agree that should also be done. But, two other issues; one is that any rain that runs down that wall and lands on the exposed rim of slab will continue to have the opportunity to seep through that single row of brick.

IF the mortar lines are compromised, or IF the bond between the bricks and the slab is ditto, then damp/water will continue to make its way through there regardless of how deep a trench is dug around this garage. Unless that exposed rim of slab and the row of brick is sealed on the outside, which would be a simple task. And it's clear from that photo that the damp causing the problem inside is focussed along that brick face - quite possibly seeping back out from the garage as the outside dries.

And the other issue is that the plywood is flush level with the brick, so any rain run-off will land on top of the brick rather than being diverted past it. Any water coming down that wall will have a great opportunity for making its way in there too, or at least enough to keep the baseplate nicely damp and rotting.

I will not repeat my twofold solution, except to say it's what I would do. Threefold - yes, dig that trench.

Rain is no more run down the wall. It will be completely fixed soon at the moment underlay extends beyond edge so no rain water pouring on the timber.

Is there a chance new bricks could protect better from dampness than old bricks..??

Yes dampness is focused along brick line ..

I am going to replace old timber at the bottom and replace with new timber, also will take it to lowest point I can with DPC layer inside . So even water drops will not go inside.

Yes I have 6 step solution now..

1. Replace rotten timber at the bottom with fresh timber in all 3 sides
2. Just the bottom layer timber will be bitumen painted in all 3 sides
3. Damp proof layer inside  external timber cladding in all 3 sides  just covering last cladding layer
4. Gravel around  3 sides  to  stop water getting inside.
5. Plastering outer brick and replace with new bricks where ever needed
6. Bitumen coating over plastering once its dried

Any of these is really stupid..? Any more things to add?

Rather than taking inputs from one person, I prefer to take as many inputs I can. Thanks

I give up. 

The dead horse has been well and truly flogged.