Bought a car from a trader but multiple problems...

TotalNoob

Hi,

I don't know if I have an issue yet, but just checking.

I bought a car on Tuesday from a traders plot for £4200.

I have since noticed it has several faults and it's now showing fault lights indicating a gearbox electrical fault.

One of the faults is that the parking sensors don't switch on automatically when you select reverse (it has a manual switch for these as well) and this is most likely related to the gearbox fault.

I now know the fault existed before I bought the car (but didn't realise this was a fault at the time) as the sensors didn't switch on when I reversed into a space at the trader's, but I thought this was because I had to manually switch them on, which apparently isn't the case.

The reversing lights also don't work and the rear wiper also doesn't come on when reverse is selected.

The car came with a 3 month warranty (limited to £2500 repairs) but as the faults most probably existed before I bought the car, who is responsible?

tacpot12

I would recommend trying to rejecting the car because it is faulty. Technically you are rejecting it because it is not of sufficient quality.

The dealer has to show that the faults were not present when you bought the car. You knew that parking sensors didn't switch on automatically when you bought the car, so I'm inclined to think that claiming that this is fault isn't going to be easy. The fault also needs to be significant, and I don't think it is. 

Also the reversing lights and rear wiper may or may not have worked when you inspected the car, but youhad the opporuntity to find these faults, and you still bought the car. The faults here are more significant, but the cause may be the same as the rear wiper is likely to be triggered by the driver selecting reverse gear. I had this problem on my car and fixed it with a new reversing switch on the gearbox. (The switch was £25 from a main dealer, so it was not an expensive fix). 

I feel that gearbox electrical fault is the fault most likely to be the basis for rejecting the car (and might be related to the problems with the reversing lights and rear wiper operation). I am inclined to think that  that the dashboard not indicating a fault when you bought the car is not sufficient to prove that the fault was not present because many fault codes can be cleared from the car's computer with a cheap ODBII reader. The dealer almost certainly has such a reader, and may have used it to clear any faults in the hope that they would stay away for at least the first 30 days of your ownership.

A court would decide if this gearbox fault was present at the time of sale "on the balance of probabilities", and I think it would a borderline decision, but I would hope they would find in your favour. The gearbox fault is serious to warrent rejecting the car. 

This webpage gives you information about how to reject the car Rejecting a car - your consumer rights | The Car Expert

It makes the point that the dealer will want to assess the car to see if the faults are present, and you can't avoid giving them the option. If they chose to repair the car while they have it (which they mioght do without telling you), they might say they cannot find the faults. If you get the car back and the faults are go, I would recommend sending them a letter confirming that you asked to reject the car within 30days, that you allowed them to inspect the car, and that it appears they have done something as the faults are no longer present. This should allos you to still reject the car if the faults reappear. 

If you have home insurance and have legal expenses cover as part of this, call the Legal Helpline provided by your insurer for more help and before you speak to the dealer.   

TotalNoob

Thanks. I do have legal cover (although not through home insurance) so I'll give them a call.

MalMonroe

Hi, you say "I don't know if I have an issue yet, but just checking" - I think you do have an issue.

And the trader is responsible. If they had told you in advance about all the faults then it could have been your fault. But it isn't.

If I were you I'd take it back to them and stay there until you got your money back. Or you reached a mutually satisfactory agreement. But it sounds like you've been sold a dud. And that's not on.

You don't need any legal cover, it's the law already. The car dealer has to comply.  Because everything you buy has to be 'as described' and 'fit for purpose' under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

More info in the following link from this site - https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

See under 'key need to knows' under the heading of 'your rights to buying goods'. 

"If you buy a used motor from a trader or grab a £700 'sale' telly with 30% off and it goes kaput once you get home, then take it back and complain."

born_again

TotalNoob said:

Hi,

I don't know if I have an issue yet, but just checking.

I bought a car on Tuesday from a traders plot for £4200.

I have since noticed it has several faults and it's now showing fault lights indicating a gearbox electrical fault.

One of the faults is that the parking sensors don't switch on automatically when you select reverse (it has a manual switch for these as well) and this is most likely related to the gearbox fault.

I now know the fault existed before I bought the car (but didn't realise this was a fault at the time) as the sensors didn't switch on when I reversed into a space at the trader's, but I thought this was because I had to manually switch them on, which apparently isn't the case.

The reversing lights also don't work and the rear wiper also doesn't come on when reverse is selected.

The car came with a 3 month warranty (limited to £2500 repairs) but as the faults most probably existed before I bought the car, who is responsible?

Odd that there is a switch. That sounds like a aftermarket fitment & may not come on automatically.

Rear wiper does not come on many cars when reversing. I have a top spec Kia & they do not.

Reversing lights OK, they should

tacpot12

Providing some evidence to the dealer that the rear wash wipe should operate when reverse gear is selected is probably a good idea. Not all cars, or even different generations of the same cars do this. 

macman

Just sounds like a simple switch or loom failure in the gear lever that should control both the parking sensors and reversing lights. Should be a straightforward fix and one that may well be covered under the warranty. Just ask the dealer to repair it.
Rejecting the car for this alone would be an over-reaction, if you are otherwise happy with it. Hardly 'multiple problems', and you cannot expect a vehicle of this age and price to be fault free.
What does the MOT say about the reversing light failure? I do hope you got a new or recent MOT with it?

400ixl

born_again said:

Odd that there is a switch. That sounds like a aftermarket fitment & may not come on automatically.

Most cars have a switch for the factory fit rear parking sensors. Not so much for switching them on, but for switching them of, in particular if towing as otherwise they would be going off all the time in reverse.

Gycraig

macman said:

Just sounds like a simple switch or loom failure in the gear lever that should control both the parking sensors and reversing lights. Should be a straightforward fix and one that may well be covered under the warranty. Just ask the dealer to repair it.
Rejecting the car for this alone would be an over-reaction, if you are otherwise happy with it. Hardly 'multiple problems', and you cannot expect a vehicle of this age and price to be fault free.
What does the MOT say about the reversing light failure? I do hope you got a new or recent MOT with it?

Of course you can expect a £4200 pound car to be “fault free” at point of sale, or at least expect to be told of any problems, what  sort of garage sells a car with reversing lights not working. 

You can expect them to develop faults but they shouldn’t be sold with these sorts of faults. 

Ditzy_Mitzy

macman said:

Just sounds like a simple switch or loom failure in the gear lever that should control both the parking sensors and reversing lights. Should be a straightforward fix and one that may well be covered under the warranty. Just ask the dealer to repair it.
Rejecting the car for this alone would be an over-reaction, if you are otherwise happy with it. Hardly 'multiple problems', and you cannot expect a vehicle of this age and price to be fault free.
What does the MOT say about the reversing light failure? I do hope you got a new or recent MOT with it?

I agree entirely.  Everything listed as a 'fault' relates to the ECU/control module not knowing that the car is in reverse.  The simplest explanation for that is an issue with the reversing light switch or the wiring, both of which tend to be simple enough fixes.  Is it a manual?  If so, the reversing light switch tends to be a simple plunger or contact actuated by the gear lever itself; they do break.  I've had to have one replaced on a car; the switch itself was cheap and the job took no more than an hour.  

Were I in the OP's position, I'd speak to the dealer in the expectation of having the fault investigated.  I see no reason why it can't be fixed with the minimum of fuss.  

macman

Gycraig said:

macman said:

Just sounds like a simple switch or loom failure in the gear lever that should control both the parking sensors and reversing lights. Should be a straightforward fix and one that may well be covered under the warranty. Just ask the dealer to repair it.
Rejecting the car for this alone would be an over-reaction, if you are otherwise happy with it. Hardly 'multiple problems', and you cannot expect a vehicle of this age and price to be fault free.
What does the MOT say about the reversing light failure? I do hope you got a new or recent MOT with it?

Of course you can expect a £4200 pound car to be “fault free” at point of sale, or at least expect to be told of any problems, what  sort of garage sells a car with reversing lights not working. 

You can expect them to develop faults but they shouldn’t be sold with these sorts of faults. 

The reversing lights do work, but the auto switch has failed, which could happen at any time. Not even a new car is entirely fault-free, and it's a trivial fix, which the dealer will probably do under warranty.
The dealer does not have to describe any faults, they simply have to be truthful and ensure the car is roadworthy. 
This fault does not constitute 'multiple problems'.