On Economy 7 but with single display meters

smellymel74

my landlord has recently ‘upgraded’ our electric and gas meters to ‘smart’ meters. Or so we were told. It turns out he’s only had digital electric meters installed; the gas remain analogue but a cable has been fitted from the gas meter to the electric meter - I was told this was to make the gas meter ‘smart’ too. it seems this is just so that the gas reading can be sent to the landlord for billing purposes. 

The problem is we’re on an Economy 7 tariff for electric so pay different rates for peak and off peak usage - we don’t have a choice on this; the landlord chooses the supplier. But the new so-called smart electric meter only displays a single reading - there’s no way of me seeing separate readings for peak and off peak usage. And we haven’t been given an in-home display to check. 

So basically I can’t ever check the readings I’m being charged for for my electric are accurate now as I can only see one reading on the meter. Does anyone know if this is legal? It doesn’t feel right at all and is very disempowering to have no knowledge of what my own readings are or be able to check for accuracy. Gas is unaffected as we’re only charged a single rate. 

thanks! 

Swipe

If you google the model number of your electric meter you should be able to find instructions on how to navigate the menu system using the buttons and arrows to also show the on and off peak registers. They should be called "Rate 1/2" or "R01/R02"

smellymel74

Thanks @Swipe I’ll look. According to my neighbour who understands the tech better than me though, the electric meter we now have doesn’t show two rates, it only shows one combined rate. There’s a black box type thing attached to the meter that apparently transmits the data, including times units were used, to the landlord.

does this sound possible? And if it is do you know if its legal for the user not to be able to see both readings?

Swipe

If your neighbour has been through the menus to check there is no off peak register being populated then you are no longer on economy 7.

[Deleted User]

Who do you pay your bill to?

EssexHebridean

This sounds to me like a sub-meter system - with the main electricity meter being under the control of the landlord. Might that mean it's going to behave differently to what the OP might expect if it was a "proper" meter as one might get installed through an energy supplier? 

mmmmikey

Hi - perhaps you coud take a picture of the meter and post it here?

I have a Landis & Gyr meter installed by EDF with two buttons and it's far from obvious how to get to the readings. If you just pressand release the A button it cycles through a series of readings that don't include the day and night readings.

But if you press and hold the B button for about 10 seconds nothing visible happens, but then when you press and release the A button it cycles through a different series of readings that does include the day and night readings, and if you press and hold button A when it gets to the end of the "enhanced" series of readings it takes you to another set. Pressing and releasing A takes you through these readings which include things like amount exported, current rates (i.e. costs) etc.

Unless your neighbour was aware of this they may not have found the hidden settings - or of course it might be a different type of meter.

MWT

This is obviously a sub-metering situation with something a little more intelligent than usual, so the absence of the ability to read the day/night rate locally doesn't mean it isn't possible to be billing accurately.

For the OP... are the payments made online and is there any information there about the day/night usage?

Scot_39

Meter Type is Important

Not all meters work the same way - or use the same button inputs to get all the different readings in different tariff modes.

So a quick google can be worth it - your neighbour might have tried what works on his - but not on yours.


I have an old Smets1 Secure Liberty 100 smart meter - for in my case E10 electric ( a variation on E7) - and it by default - and annoyingly on my IHD only shows a total price and total use for electric (*) - but has registers for gas.

I don't have gas.  E7/E10 is generally only recommended these days for houses with electric heating - to take advantage of cheaprer night rates - as for many others the punitive day rate outweighs the night time discount benefit. 

As you mention you have gas as well  - you may not be on E7 tariff anymore - even if have an old E7 meter - many utilities allowed SR tariffs on E7 meters - others replaced them phyisically.

Example - to read my meter model - a Secure Liberty 100 meter (used to be used by EDF and EON etc)

button 9 works to display total on a SR electric meter, or a complex rate meter

button 6 - but you need to scan through all registers - on E7/E10 electric - to get to IMP R01 (day) and then again IMP R02 (night) to get day / night usage.  

gas as well ?

(The meter itself has more than 2 registers - so gets a bit confusing - worth checking a couple of times)


Do a search by meter model - and you might find similar applies to yours.  There are even you tube videos for some - but check a few - in case wrong

Note (*) I no longer regularly read my meter physically. 

I now get monthly bills - not 6 monthly - and if want to know more detail - and I used to - I can calculate day/night from IHD total price and total units used -  knowing tariff rates and a bit of GCSE maths - work out my day / night use in spread sheet daily, weekly, monthly etc - - yes I can be a bit of a geek. 

Does your meter give you total cost and total kWh or just kWh ?

More Complex Homes (split lets etc)

It is not entirely clear whether you are in shared accomodation - or renting outright.

I have always rented out homes/flats with single meter supplies and had supply contract in my name direct with utlities.

Friends have had landlord keep billing - some on just one master meter, some more complex or utilities included basis.  

My sister worked for a housing association - their flats were on communal wet central heating etc. - billed direct by HA contractor - not standard utility company etc - so not covered by EPG etc.

macman

Whatever the meter visibility, your LL needs to bill you showing the kWh usage, the unit rate, and the meter readings he used to calculate the usage. Not just 'x £'s for electricity.'

Scot_39

macman said:

Whatever the meter visibility, your LL needs to bill you showing the kWh usage, the unit rate, and the meter readings he used to calculate the usage. Not just 'x £'s for electricity.'

If landlord is technically re-selling electricity or gas - then as you say they are not allowed to profit from it - but that is not always the case.

And starting with a risk of a landlord beleiving that the tennant thinks he/she or it (company) may be screwing said tennant - is not always the best way to approach.

And in these days of EPG, EBSS etc - and without knowing the sort of set-up and his landlord's chosen supply contract - it is impossible to say what exactly - ethically/morally and legally - tennants should expect / landlords should be doing.