Divorce - Advice with finances please

father_of_2

Hi all, thank you in advance for any help. I've long followed MSE and hopefully I'm posting this in the right place. 

Currently going through separation & divorce with the wife/soon to be ex-wife. We have two primary school aged children and are keen to keep things amicable which has worked for the most part. The only real sticking point is money and "the pot". For background we don't have much in the form of savings/cash but do have a substantial amount of equity in the house we own (Joint ownership). For the majority of the past 10 years or so I have either been the sole earner although my wife currently earns a small amount through part time working. 

I am keen to get her and kids setup in a house/property and we would like them to stay in the same school. We live in the South-East so their property purchase will eat into a large % of the equity. I'm not worried about a 50/50 split but I'd like something to show for 25+ years of employment. I know she has been doing research and is now talking about pensions, bonuses and going through a solicitor even though we initially agreed to do as much as possible ourselves.

The wife/ex wife is one of two children and her parents are very comfortable, bordering on wealthy. This has contributed to her ability not to work whilst raising the kids. On paper, she will be reliant on my maintenance payments and part time employment. I have already offered 25% more than what Child Maintenance would be according to the calculator.

Even if things are amicable for now, the thought of giving up 80-90% of the house equity and then having things like pensions affected would leave me with nothing. I've already accepted I'm likely to have to houseshare or something - not ideal in your 40's.

Essentially, I'm wondering if there is any way I can come out of this without being "taken to the cleaners". If things did get formal, would the fact I was the sole contributor to the mortgage change anything? Would her parents' wealth mean anything (guessing not)?

I think the only thing I would get is a near half of the equity but this would mean they wouldn't have enough to afford a house. I know the parents wouldn't contribute until the divorce etc is finalised - mainly as I had the cheek to suggest we should acknowledge the marriage ended at least 5 years ago and we've been housemates since. 

Apologies it's a long vent. This has taken its toll mentally and although I want the best for the kids, I'd like to have something to re-build with so I can try and get a small property in the future. 

pinkshoes

father_of_2 said:

Hi all, thank you in advance for any help. I've long followed MSE and hopefully I'm posting this in the right place. 

Currently going through separation & divorce with the wife/soon to be ex-wife. We have two primary school aged children and are keen to keep things amicable which has worked for the most part. The only real sticking point is money and "the pot". For background we don't have much in the form of savings/cash but do have a substantial amount of equity in the house we own (Joint ownership). For the majority of the past 10 years or so I have either been the sole earner although my wife currently earns a small amount through part time working. 

I am keen to get her and kids setup in a house/property and we would like them to stay in the same school. We live in the South-East so their property purchase will eat into a large % of the equity. I'm not worried about a 50/50 split but I'd like something to show for 25+ years of employment. I know she has been doing research and is now talking about pensions, bonuses and going through a solicitor even though we initially agreed to do as much as possible ourselves.

The wife/ex wife is one of two children and her parents are very comfortable, bordering on wealthy. This has contributed to her ability not to work whilst raising the kids. On paper, she will be reliant on my maintenance payments and part time employment. I have already offered 25% more than what Child Maintenance would be according to the calculator.

Even if things are amicable for now, the thought of giving up 80-90% of the house equity and then having things like pensions affected would leave me with nothing. I've already accepted I'm likely to have to houseshare or something - not ideal in your 40's.

Essentially, I'm wondering if there is any way I can come out of this without being "taken to the cleaners". If things did get formal, would the fact I was the sole contributor to the mortgage change anything? Would her parents' wealth mean anything (guessing not)?

I think the only thing I would get is a near half of the equity but this would mean they wouldn't have enough to afford a house. I know the parents wouldn't contribute until the divorce etc is finalised - mainly as I had the cheek to suggest we should acknowledge the marriage ended at least 5 years ago and we've been housemates since. 

Apologies it's a long vent. This has taken its toll mentally and although I want the best for the kids, I'd like to have something to re-build with so I can try and get a small property in the future. 

But this is not feasible either, as you also need a home for 2 children to stay in when they stay with you.

Her parents wealth is irrelevant, but I would argue that as both children are at primary school, your (ex)wife can work full time rather than part time, then school holidays you split between you. 

On this basis, then your wife should be entitled to a small amount of your pension on the years she gave up work to raise the kids.

I'd then start at 50/50 on the house, adding a little more then onto her share in lieu of the pension. She can get a full time job for a mortgage of her own. If her parents would like to help her out with a larger deposit then fair enough...

You then need to look at a suitable maintenance payment to cover breakfast/afterschool clubs if you are both work, or pay the standard child maintenance then help pay for these extras on top, including picking the kids up from school.

I'm afraid part time work is a luxury and when you are running two households this really isn't feasible. 

MikeJXE

If she gets a solicitor yes she will take you to the cleaners and the only will is the solicitor, you need to sleep big time 

comeandgo

You need to look at all assets you and your wife have, pensions included.  Value everything and then starting point is 50:50.  You adjust as you see fit to agree.  You may decide to give all of the property to your wife to keep your pension.  

Twixty3

You need to consider a house suitable for when your children are with you as a priority. A room in a shared house won’t cut it and that is becoming more widely recognised now for separated Dads. 

As your wife works she will also be entitled to universal credit.  Any spousal maintenance would be deducted £ for £ but any child maintenance she can keep tax free over and above universal credit.  

Working single parents can get mortgages and child maintenance can be used for mortgage affordability.
You should not really commit to paying over and above anything right now in light of the fact you too need suitable housing. You must emphasise your need for suitable housing to have continued contact with your children.  You won’t get any assistance for your children whatsoever from the government even if you lost your job.  You’ll be classed as a single adult without children when it comes to the welfare system.  Unjust in my opinion. This country can do better.  
Many will tell you to pay over and above child maintenance or pay this and that and the other other as well but you do not have to especially when right now it could be the difference between a two bed home and a room in a shared house.  

Universal credit also gives help with childcare. 

There is also the possibility she may like to remain in the family home and could perhaps buy you out but keep the larger share of equity if she get get a mortgage. 
There are various options but having sizeable equity gives scope for it to be shared in some way depending on all other factors. 

tightauldgit

The starting point is a 50/50 split of assets including pensions but you also should consider each others needs and potentially adjust accordingly. 

Assuming you both will have some custody of the kids then you are probably going to need at least a 2 bed place as a minimum. And a court should consider that if it came to it. It wouldn't be fair for her to continue living in a four bed while you go off to a room in a shared house for example. 

A court would also expect her to maximise her earnings and you wouldn't be expected to subsidize her decision to only work part time if that's what she continues to do. 

I personally found it useful to go through the forms the court require, the Form Es. As this make you list out all your assets and value them. Then do a 50/50 split and see where that leaves you and if that works for both of you. 

Unless the amounts to be shared are large then just be aware that fighting over who gets what can often cost more than just agreeing to a share that you might not be 100 percent happy with. 

TBagpuss

One option may be a Mesher Type order - this would typically mean that she has a largre share of the equity now, but you have a legal charge over the new proprety entitling you to a further lump sum (normally reocorded as a % of the gross value of the poerty ) payable on specifc dates or events in the future .

In your case, it might be reaonable to look at a payment once the youngest child is 12 or so, on the assumption hat she should be able to be working full time by then and therfore to have boosted her income and earning capacity.

Another possibility is to look at housing options - as others have said, you need to be able to buy or rent a property suitable for th childrne when they are with you, as well as her needing somewhere suitabkle for them to to live.

She might be able to look at Shared Ownership properties as an option, which would allow her to rehous securely with a loeramountthan if she was buying conventionally.

Even now, with your children being primary school age, it would be reaonable for yor wif to work part time during shcool hours, and if you are able to look into options -for istance, if you were abl to agree a flexible working request with your employer to perhaps work compressedhours so you could finsih early and have the childnre after school a couple of days a weeekm that not ony gives the children time with you, and lets you have direct involvment with the school, but also increases your wife's availability and earning capacity - jobs just in school hours are availle but for obvious reasons are popular. If someone is available (say) 10-3 3 days a week and 9-5 or 9-6  the other two days then they may have more options as well as being able to work more hours.  
It's also worth looking into thigs such as whether the chilnre's school has a breakfast club that would allow for  you and your wife to be able to drop the childnre off and still be at work for 9, rahter than having to try to find / mke arrangements for a later start time to fit in th school run.

Her parents finacial positon isn't relvant as she has no right to any fns rom thm, but  if (for instnace) the deal you and sshe struck was that you had a charge over her home then if they then chose to lend her money to pay that off, either immediately or when it falls due, then that works for both of you.

You having paid more to the motgage int relaly relvant as that contribution by you would be matched by your wife having done more in the way of child care etc, so you would be treated as eachhaving made equally importnat / valuable contributions. 

GiantTCR

The main principle of divorce law is that when assets are split, both parties need to be left with a fair share so that both can have an equal start to their new lives.

What you negotiated doesn't seem fair, with your wife getting enough to get a house for herself and the kids, while you may end up having to house share.

It's a judge's job to make sure both parties get a fair share so if your wife's lawyer gets too grabby, go to court. What does your lawyer say?

mark5

Get a good divorce solicitor I had a woman but wouldn’t do that again be careful not to run up massive legal bills though, its easy to run up large legal bills fighting over trivial amounts.
Keep letters and meetings with your solicitor to only when necessary.

Don’t give up money in the divorce to easily to quickly,  offer 50% of everything as a starting point, you wont get 50% but don’t start off to generously. What ever you offer she will want more.

Its surprising how tight things can get when your paying bills alone and maintenance on top. I was paying the mortgage alone when married but all of a sudden my maintenance was more than the old mortgage and I still had rent to pay. The children more or less cost me the same as before  with maintenance to pay on top. 

Aim for 50% but realistically expect possibly 40% in the end, if she’s getting the majority of the house she can’t expect your pension, savings, generous maintenance payments etc too.

Good luck.