Child's DLA counted as income in Divorce

Divorcedwith3

Thank goodness for that as mine has had 4 holidays this year and both have new cars 

tightauldgit

Divorcedwith3 said:

Even if he is paying the bills himself it’s irrelevant- their is a second adult in the house that is working and it is assumed that they contribute to bills. 

I know that he is saying he pays the bills because it was in his first discovery- he is claiming he pays all the rent, the electricity, all the household costs and failed to mention she was living there. 

On a form E it actually asks if you intend to cohabitate because if you do if has an effect on your figures. 

it's not necessarily assumed someone cohabiting will pay the bills - as part of the Form E process they will have to disclose their bank statements showing their incomings and outgoings, I presume they've done that? So you should be able to see the true financial picture and so should the court. You should also request a disclosure of the financials of the new partner if they are cohabiting. But if they aren't married then their finances remain largely separate and the court won't take too much if it into account. The relationship could end tomorrow. 

I appreciate that these things get emotional and contentious but it's better from your point of view not to let that get in the way and just focus on the facts and figures. 

I have to admit to being confused by your comments around the CMS - the kids from the new relationship are not his if I read your posts right. Therefore he has no financial obligation to support them and they shouldn't be considered by the CMS as his dependent children. Equally I'm confused that you say he's reduced his CMS payments - since he can't do that. Only CMS can change those based on what he has submitted to them. Your DLA money is absolutely 100% irrelevant to any CMS payments.

Equally saying 'I don't consider the children his' while also expecting him to pay their maintenance and saying you are looking after "his kids" doesn't sound too good. 

There's a lot of back and forth and arguments both ways in the financial process but most of it is white noise for the court. Your interests are best served by cutting through the noise and making your case succinctly to the court and based on evidence and data. 

The financial process is there to divvy up marital assets not to punish one or the other party or to settle scores. Based on 50% of the assets is this sufficient to set you up in your life and get you housed etc? Bear in mind you are entitled to a share of pensions etc. If your needs are greater (which it sounds like they may well be) then you need to make a case for a bigger share than 50% - so for example if he's not having contact with the kids then you need accommodation suitable for all of you while he only needs accommodation for himself, it limits your ability to work and earn, etc.

The courts are reasonably good at cutting through the BS but at the end of it you will probably both feel like you haven't got what you want, which probably means it was a reasonable compromise.  

Divorcedwith3

Sorry for the confusion it’s probably my terminology but he informed CMS that there are two children living with him and they reduced the amount I get even though she gets child maintenance from the children’s father. 

I also think that if he is going on record to the CMS claiming he is financially responsible for these other children then the he is viewing the realationship with their mother as serious and longterm so therefore her finances should be considered (not that I expect her to support me and the children of the marriage but in that if they are claiming they are a family unit for CMS then the same rationale should be given to her contributing to the household and therefore reducing his bills/increasing his disposable income. He can’t claim it isn’t a serious relationship so her finances shouldn’t be considered and then say it is for the purposes of reducing child maintenance. 

As for expecting him to contribute to the children I do- I expect him to contribute money, time, affection and love. He is unwilling to have contact with them and (I have never attempted to stop access) but a family court cannot force a father to see their children. He can however be held accountable to support them financially and support me financially so that I can bring them up the best I can as a single mother. 

Divorcedwith3

I want my children to be financially supported by a father that walked out in them and is threatening to use their DLA as a bargaining chip in a divorce. This isn’t about emotions it’s about holding a man who earns a very good wage accountable in financial terms to support his children. This is a man who gets £800 a week in wages it isn’t about a scorned woman looking revenge it’s about him not being able to walk away from children who are already vulnerable due to having special needs. A man who was happy to reduce the amount he pays in child maintenance so he could bolster his already big income. Who tried to hide the fact his partner was living with him and claim he paid every household bill in his home to make it look like he had little disposable income. Who wears designer clothes, replaces his car every year and is just back from a Cruise. 

People can call me bitter, emotional or whatever but I will not stand back and let my children’s lives be disadvantaged because of a decision an adult made. 

And as for courts I do hope they do cut through the !!!!!! and see a single mother with disabled children trying her best to get by on benefits while the father is earning a good wage and contributing to pensions. A mother who may never be able to get back to work due to caring responsibilities, a mother who would love to be able to pay into a pension and earn a wage. 

tightauldgit

Divorcedwith3 said:

Sorry for the confusion it’s probably my terminology but he informed CMS that there are two children living with him and they reduced the amount I get even though she gets child maintenance from the children’s father. 

I also think that if he is going on record to the CMS claiming he is financially responsible for these other children then the he is viewing the realationship with their mother as serious and longterm so therefore her finances should be considered (not that I expect her to support me and the children of the marriage but in that if they are claiming they are a family unit for CMS then the same rationale should be given to her contributing to the household and therefore reducing his bills/increasing his disposable income. He can’t claim it isn’t a serious relationship so her finances shouldn’t be considered and then say it is for the purposes of reducing child maintenance. 

As for expecting him to contribute to the children I do- I expect him to contribute money, time, affection and love. He is unwilling to have contact with them and (I have never attempted to stop access) but a family court cannot force a father to see their children. He can however be held accountable to support them financially and support me financially so that I can bring them up the best I can as a single mother. 

Something doesn't seem right here and you might wish to speak to the CMS to clarify. 

I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that the only children that CMS take into account are those which are legally dependent on the NRP. So unless he's fathered those kids, married their mother or legally adopted them then he is not responsible for their child maintenance and therefore I can't see that they should factor into the calculation. 

Now it's possible I'm mistaken, or it's possible that something else has gone on with CMS but if I was you I would be on the phone to them in the morning asking for an explanation of exactly what is going on. Sometimes I find CMS just make it up as they go along. 

tightauldgit

Divorcedwith3 said:

I want my children to be financially supported by a father that walked out in them and is threatening to use their DLA as a bargaining chip in a divorce. 

I appreciate that, but for better or worse the way the law tries to do that is via the CMS process to which your DLA is completely irrelevant. 

The DLA is not a 'bargaining chip' in the divorce no matter what your ex says or doesn't say - it's simply a fact of the circumstances and probably not all that of an important one in the big scheme of the settlement. The more you can present dispassionate arguments about the circumstances in a court then the better the outcome is likely to be. 



 

MalMonroe

Hi, I'm on your side. I was left a single parent when our daughter was 9. BUT the court will have the information and it doesn't matter what your ex/soon to be ex says, thinks or decides, it isn't up to him. He will be told by the court what he has to do and pay. And if he doesn't he'll be in contempt of court. As he can obviously afford to contribute to the lives of his children, he will have no excuse. There's not much point arguing with him because he's not in charge.

Going round in circles on here isn't helping because it's not adding anything positive to your experience and is probably just upsetting for you. The court - from my own experience - will put the children first and ensure that their needs can be met. They won't care about the adults' feelings or anything they say. Your ex is obviously feeling defensive because he feels guilty (I know it sounds strange but it's true - he sounds very similar to my ex). Hopefully if he is also like my ex, that new relationship won't last and your ex will leave a train of different exes behind him. Mine now lives in Asia with his (get this) fourth wife. He isn't happy and he hasn't been happy for many years. He has, though, maintained contact with our daughter. Hopefully in time your ex will realise that his children are very precious - more precious than any new partner - and deserve his love. 

I do hope you manage to get things sorted out for the benefit of your children. Your solicitor should really be reassuring you but some of them are pretty useless, I went through three with my divorce but they were all as bad as each other. 

I wish you all the best. You will get things sorted out and things will start to settle. It just all takes time. Take care of yourself and your lovely children.

Divorcedwith3

I appreciate all the comments and thank you all for taking time to reply. The thing that upsets me most (I do realise that my feelings influence me) is not the actual money but the principle of him not wanting to see or provide for his kids. 

Divorcedwith3

I did phone the CMS and unfortunately it can be done- child maintenance can be reduced if the paying party can prove they have other children they support- I asked how this was done and was told mother sent in child benefit letters that showed she lived there and they were a family unit so he is assumed to be financially supporting the kids. I explained that I knew that she was already receiving child maintenance from father of children and they said that was irrelevant 

CurlySue2017

Divorcedwith3 said:

Respectfully you are wrong - his disposable income is relevant. If he is saying for example, he pays £1000 a month out on bills then this reduces his disposable income. If there is a second adult in the house it is assumed that they pay half the bills. 

So in the above example he would be considered to be paying £500 and therefore would have an extra £500 a month disposable income. 

For relevance sake, this is a man that earns £800 a week (according to figures supplied to CMS by HMRC) and who informed CMS of her children living there so his contribution to his own would reduce. She brings in a good wage on top of this amount and is also receiving child maintenance. Meanwhile I’m paying all the bills myself.

I do not consider the children his - he has chosen not to have contact with them. 

He also has reduced the CMS he pays and is now trying to claim their DLA money should be counted as my income. 

None of these actions are in the best interests of his children. 

A father is someone who spends time with their children and who supports them - not just financially but emotionally.  He doesn’t get the job title if he doesn’t do the job. 

I am sorry but you are wrong.  In the eyes of the CMS it is not relevant at all.  The only thing they look at is his income, nothing else - and that is before tax, not after!  They don't care that either of you have bills to pay or what other cirsumstancs are involved.  I'm not trying to argue with you here, I agree with your principal mostly, but the CMS don't consider feelings and are not easy to deal with so you need to be prepared.

marcia_ said:

CurlySue2017 said:

Divorcedwith3 said:

Just seen the bold. It is relevant when he is claiming he has no disposable income. His bills are effectively cut by 50% because there are two people paying them so his rent will be halved etc. - how do you know this?  I assume he doesn't discuss his financial arrangements with you anymore?

whereas I’m paying the full amount myself while supporting his 3 children - They are both your children, not "his" children

I don’t mind that he is with her um ok, you can't really "mind", it's nothing to do with you

but he can’t claim he is paying all the bills for a second household because he isn’t - two adults with good incomes are paying one set of bills - again, how do you know this?

He failed to mention she was living with him on his first disclosure Because it's none of your business

and gave the figures as if he were paying all the bills himself. Maybe he is?

When you make a claim via CMS (which I assume you will - you should!) his other relationship will be completely irrelevant.  The only things that will be considered are his incomings and outgoings, not the other person that lives with him.  The only exception to this is if he has another child with that person - then his liability to you would reduce.

 His outgoings other than child support are not considered  otherwise absent parents could claim to pay all of their income in rent & bills with nothing left to pay child support. 

My mistake, you are correct that nothing else is taken into consideration apart from what he earns. 

So this makes what I said above correct - the earnings of the new partner, bills, etc don't come into this at all