Water Streaming Out of Retaining Wall after Neighbours New Patio

markavfc2

Hi All,

My neighbour had a new patio installed in there back garden around 6 weeks ago. They used porcelain tiles which are totally non permeable. The total area is around 50 square metres. No extra drainage was installed.

I live down hill from my neighbour and the there is a retaining wall between our two properties (which belongs to my neighbour) that is about 6 foot high. It is brick built and 9" wide. It is about 25 foot long. There are four drainage/weep holes positioned along the wall approx. 2 foot from the bottom. The issue I have had since the new patio went in next door is that every time it rains water is streaming out of these drainage holes and any cracks in the wall. Literally like someone has turned a tap on. We have lived int he property over 10 years and before the new patio went in we had never known more than a jug full of water come out of these drainage holes.

I have spoken with the neighbour and the company who laid the patio. First they were going to put some drainage channels in along the edge of the wall where the patio ends (this is where the water flows to) but in the end all they did was put concrete in the approx. 3" - 4" gap from where the porcelain tiles finished and the wall started. They said they have sloped it so the water drains out to the front of my neighbours. I spoke to the company again after they did this to say it hadn't made any difference and they said that the drainage issue that has arisen is nothing to do with them, is a total coincidence and suggested a drainage pipe underground maybe broke and that the neighbour should get a camera sent down to check.

My neighbour has gone very defensive about it all when I speak with them. My worry is that this wall is being damaged. There is water not only streaming out of the drain/weep holes but also through the mortar/any cracks. Also there is approx. a shovel full of soil/sand washing out of the holes each time it rains. 

Any advice on what I can do or what the exact cause could be? I am going to write to the neighbour as they are not interested when I talk to them even though it is their wall. They don't see the issue on there side so seem to be choosing to ignore it. I can't let this go on though as if the wall collapses it wall cause a lot of damage and could have really serious consequences as my gas meter/pipes are on the outside wall of my house on that side.

markavfc2

I have video showing the water streaming out of the drainage/weep holes but not sure how to/if can post video. Here is some photos of the holes when the water is streaming out. 

Bendy_House

That wall is theirs, yes? You are certain? Phew, good - at least if it collapsed it'll fully be their job to sort it...

The fact that silt is being washed out is concerning. If it was 'just' water, then it could be argued that the drain holes are doing their job. But actually washing out silt? That sounds as though the issue has escalated.

From what you describe, tho', it's hard to see how the patio could do this. I mean, surely this is 'preventing' the rain water from percolating in to the ground where it would then end up against the wall? Isn't the water from the patio just draining away elsewhere now? (Or have I read the layout wrong? Any chance of a sketch?)

There HAS been EXCEPTIONAL rainfall down here recently, and this morning was no exception - lawdie! We are having issues that we haven't before ( and the subject of a thread on here!), So if you've had more rain that usual too, then it could simply be down to that?

What to do? Could you add a sketch on here of the patio and wall, please? And do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? If so, call them up for 'advice' and 'guidance' on what to do. By all means mention your suspicion about the patio, but please don't state it as the cause, because you simply don't know.

When you spoke to your neighb, was it in a recordable/provable way? Ie, could you demonstrate - if needed - that they HAVE been made aware of the issue? Start a blog on dates, timings, and what was said - keep a record, just on case...

In fact, I'd do that now, before calling your LP. When they ask, "Have you told your neighb about this?", you can reply, "On the Xth I spoke to Y and said 'blah blah' to which they replied 'halb halb'. I spoke to the installer on the Gth, and..." that sort of stuff.

markavfc2

Thanks for the reply @Bendy_House. The wall is definitely theirs yes and they acknowledge this. The reason I think it is related to the patio is that the issue has only started since the new patio was installed. We have had a lot of rain lately but we have also had plenty of rain in the 10 years previous I have been here and never had this issue before.

This is the layout.

Section62

markavfc2 said:

 

The wall is definitely theirs yes and they acknowledge this.

Is this written down somewhere - such as in your deeds - or was it just the outcome of a conversation over the fence?

markavfc2

Section62 said:

markavfc2 said:

 

The wall is definitely theirs yes and they acknowledge this.

Is this written down somewhere - such as in your deeds - or was it just the outcome of a conversation over the fence?

It is in the deeds.

tacpot12

You do need to sent them a letter recording your concerns. I would send the letter using the Signed For service so that you can evidence they received it. I would be concerned; the soil being washed out is comming from somewhere, and it is probably undermining their patio. 

If you have legal expenses cover as part of your home insurance you should talk to them immediately. They will be able to give you further advice about how to manage the situation. 

Section62

markavfc2 said:

Section62 said:

markavfc2 said:

 

The wall is definitely theirs yes and they acknowledge this.

Is this written down somewhere - such as in your deeds - or was it just the outcome of a conversation over the fence?

It is in the deeds.

Then there are two things you need to do -

Inform the neighbour (in writing) that you have observed silt/soil being washed out from behind their retaining wall and you are concerned that this may give rise to stability issues.  Make it clear that whilst this is their problem to sort out, if the wall collapses as a result of deficient drainage and/or a lack of proper maintenance, you will not only expect them to arange the repair of the wall at their cost, but also be seeking to claim for any damage caused to your property as a result of the failure.

Secondly, write to them advising that since the patio area was (re)done, the previously small amount of water weeping from the drainage holes has become a substantial flow during wet weather. Make it clear that you have not consented to them discharging water from their patio into/onto your property and that you expect them to make arrangements for the efficient collection and disposal of surface water within their own property boundary.

I would give them a reasonable amount of time (say 14 days) to take advice and respond to you with confirmation of their proposed action.

markavfc2

@Section62 thank you for the response. Is it worth me contacting the local council planning services dept and informing them?

Bendy_House

markavfc2 said:

Thanks for the reply @Bendy_House. The wall is definitely theirs yes and they acknowledge this. The reason I think it is related to the patio is that the issue has only started since the new patio was installed. We have had a lot of rain lately but we have also had plenty of rain in the 10 years previous I have been here and never had this issue before.

This is the layout.

And where does the run-off from the patio now go?

What was there before the new patio sections were added?

Anyhoo, I'd follow S62's advice, and also contact your LP. Do not state to the neighb or LP that the patio 'is' the cause, or even your 'suspicion' of this, because (a) we don't know, and (b) it doesn't really matter - the actual issue is the water and silt. Just state your observations of the increased flow observed since the patio was built, and your concerns of damage to your property.

Pleased the ownership of the wall is confirmed as theirs in your deeds - and presumably in your neighb's too?

Section62

markavfc2 said:

Section62 thank you for the response. Is it worth me contacting the local council planning services dept and informing them?

Unless either property is listed, or there is a planning condition or article 4 direction applyingto the neighbour's property, I don't think there is anything that can be done from a planning perspective.

If the neighbour won't do anything about the runoff then you may need to try a complaint to the council's environmental health department, but personally I wouldn't do that before you've tried less abrasive approaches.