My Employment postion

Hi 
I hope all are safe and well 

I have e been with my present company for over 4 years now but have not seen any change in pay 
I have had 4 disciplinary   ( please note this is the only job where this has happened to me 2 are  old and 1 is about to expire not sure what happened to the last one )

Each time I asked why there was no pay rise told the company not healthy 

Now in my last 2 meetings told I am underperforming. why is taken them 4 years to find this out or is this another way of saying no rise till next year ( CAN I ASK HR THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD )

I was on 2 furloughs in the pandemic when around 6 to eight people were working from home thus am sure they got a pay rise or bonus 
I asked d if could work from home and told no laptop to go round 

Just before furlough, my son got covid symptoms thus I and wife had to sell isolate because the results to a long to come back I had my ssp taken back by the company even though I advised them they could claim from Government and they would get back,thus a tough 2 months making ends meet 

I have seen other members of staff say they have covid and laptops are sent t their house so they can work from home  or if the family visiting lap top sent or allowed to take them so they work from home,  thus this favoritism I think but dismiss by management (CAN I ASK HR RE THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD  ) 

I come t know a person who joined 6 months before me and left recently was on £6kmor then I am 

I am on 24 plus £250. month bonus if I hit targets 


What can I do 

Await your response 
«1

Comments

  • diystarter7
    diystarter7 Posts: 5,202
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    edited 20 November 2022 at 10:17AM
    Hi OP
    Sadly this looks like another case of favoritism and victimisation.
    Indeed you can have a chat with HR, an informal one and mention no names and at the start of the informal chat seek their assurance that it is in confidence and not to go any further. However, if you mention names, then IMO, HR has a duty of care to investigate and people will be called in. (NB: When speaking with HR and in the real world, if the person/s you speak with are close to the person they think you are talking about, they will tell them so be sure you can trust the person you speak with - It is hard in situations like this but I am talking about real world life and not rules etc)

    Sadly, in cases like this and from what you said, managers, where there is a will there is a way, will rightly or wrongly justify their actions or inactions.

    When they told you you are "underperforming" did you ask for how long?  If this was a lot longer before the last review, then they need to tell you IMO why you was not advised as like almost everyone, you are not a mind reader.

    Consult your union.
    Consult ACAS. They are there for solutions and therefore won't get involved directly atm but we have found them really good on free and very sensible and balanced advice.

    TBH, the outfit you are working for does not seem like my cup of tea, have you considered moving?  I've noted with smaller companies and in my experience, they apepar to have a lot more favorites and at times certain people get away with doing very little and getting paid a lot more than the person sitting next to them

    Do you have a buddy at work that you can trust 100%, what do they think? Will the support you?

    Only you can decide and chat to HR could go either way, you get a favorable resolution or it becomes worse



    Good luck


  • Undervalued
    Undervalued Posts: 8,786
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    edited 20 November 2022 at 10:21AM
    aayush said:
    Hi 
    I hope all are safe and well 

    I have e been with my present company for over 4 years now but have not seen any change in pay 
    I have had 4 disciplinary   ( please note this is the only job where this has happened to me 2 are  old and 1 is about to expire not sure what happened to the last one )

    Each time I asked why there was no pay rise told the company not healthy 

    Now in my last 2 meetings told I am underperforming. why is taken them 4 years to find this out or is this another way of saying no rise till next year ( CAN I ASK HR THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD )

    I was on 2 furloughs in the pandemic when around 6 to eight people were working from home thus am sure they got a pay rise or bonus 
    I asked d if could work from home and told no laptop to go round 

    Just before furlough, my son got covid symptoms thus I and wife had to sell isolate because the results to a long to come back I had my ssp taken back by the company even though I advised them they could claim from Government and they would get back,thus a tough 2 months making ends meet 

    I have seen other members of staff say they have covid and laptops are sent t their house so they can work from home  or if the family visiting lap top sent or allowed to take them so they work from home,  thus this favoritism I think but dismiss by management (CAN I ASK HR RE THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD  ) 

    I come t know a person who joined 6 months before me and left recently was on £6kmor then I am 

    I am on 24 plus £250. month bonus if I hit targets 


    What can I do 

    Await your response 
    There is no default legal right to a pay rise ever, unless your pay were to fall below the national minimum wage.

    Equally, what somebody else is or was paid is in most circumstances irrelevant.

    You can ask HR what you like but there is no guarantee it won't get back to your FD (who I assume is your immediate boss). HR work for the company to protect its interests. The are not in any way a neutral arbiter between employees and their management.

    4 disciplinaries in as many years is not good! To say that they "expire" is largely meaningless, certainly for pay and promotion purposes. People remember and with a few exceptions (unlawful discrimination such as race, gender etc) the company can use whatever factors they like in deciding who to promote or award a pay rise.

    I can't remember the precise details about the covid regulations but was SSP ever paid to people self isolating rather than being ill? Maybe somebody can remember what entitlements there were under these circumstances? If you were entitled to something then yes, it should have been paid. I would make very sure of the facts before making a fuss about it and even then consider how wise that would be in the current situation.  
  • aayush
    aayush Posts: 1,276
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    aayush said:
    Hi 
    I hope all are safe and well 

    I have e been with my present company for over 4 years now but have not seen any change in pay 
    I have had 4 disciplinary   ( please note this is the only job where this has happened to me 2 are  old and 1 is about to expire not sure what happened to the last one )

    Each time I asked why there was no pay rise told the company not healthy 

    Now in my last 2 meetings told I am underperforming. why is taken them 4 years to find this out or is this another way of saying no rise till next year ( CAN I ASK HR THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD )

    I was on 2 furloughs in the pandemic when around 6 to eight people were working from home thus am sure they got a pay rise or bonus 
    I asked d if could work from home and told no laptop to go round 

    Just before furlough, my son got covid symptoms thus I and wife had to sell isolate because the results to a long to come back I had my ssp taken back by the company even though I advised them they could claim from Government and they would get back,thus a tough 2 months making ends meet 

    I have seen other members of staff say they have covid and laptops are sent t their house so they can work from home  or if the family visiting lap top sent or allowed to take them so they work from home,  thus this favoritism I think but dismiss by management (CAN I ASK HR RE THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD  ) 

    I come t know a person who joined 6 months before me and left recently was on £6kmor then I am 

    I am on 24 plus £250. month bonus if I hit targets 


    What can I do 

    Await your response 
    There is no default legal right to a pay rise ever, unless your pay were to fall below the national minimum wage.

    Equally, what somebody else is or was paid is in most circumstances irrelevant.

    You can ask HR what you like but there is no guarantee it won't get back to your FD (who I assume is your immediate boss). HR work for the company to protect its interests. The are not in any way a neutral arbiter between employees and their management.

    4 disciplinaries in as many years is not good! To say that they "expire" is largely meaningless, certainly for pay and promotion purposes. People remember and with a few exceptions (unlawful discrimination such as race, gender etc) the company can use whatever factors they like in deciding who to promote or award a pay rise.

    I can't remember the precise details about the covid regulations but was SSP ever paid to people self isolating rather than being ill? Maybe somebody can remember what entitlements there were under these circumstances? If you were entitled to something then yes, it should have been paid. I would make very sure of the facts before making a fuss about it and even then consider how wise that would be in the current situation.  
    For the  4 disciplinaries, I think my work was just around furlough time when you were not given time to clean up the accounts thus they had look in to even though the staff was not in the office 

    3,4 one was doing my job chasing debt for charity when it moved to address it had asked to have invoices sent to another address which was not on my system and this was because the charity wrote to the director of my company my stance you got the work done thus you should pay within set terms 

    4 one was not responding to emails re an insurance job which was taken on by our body shop without checking if had account for the company thus car left the site we getting paid only after chasing was the payment received 
     The other was not treating other members of staff with respect, I asked where here in the accounts office or other sites advised other sites asked for the name of the person when advised I told the person present what was sent to via email and showed it to both 
    Was told by the person would run me over with the bus if he saw out about 
    so I think all four 
     disciplinaries just to make look bad 

    then the question of underperforming why taken fours to find this out
  • aayush said:
    aayush said:
    Hi 
    I hope all are safe and well 

    I have e been with my present company for over 4 years now but have not seen any change in pay 
    I have had 4 disciplinary   ( please note this is the only job where this has happened to me 2 are  old and 1 is about to expire not sure what happened to the last one )

    Each time I asked why there was no pay rise told the company not healthy 

    Now in my last 2 meetings told I am underperforming. why is taken them 4 years to find this out or is this another way of saying no rise till next year ( CAN I ASK HR THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD )

    I was on 2 furloughs in the pandemic when around 6 to eight people were working from home thus am sure they got a pay rise or bonus 
    I asked d if could work from home and told no laptop to go round 

    Just before furlough, my son got covid symptoms thus I and wife had to sell isolate because the results to a long to come back I had my ssp taken back by the company even though I advised them they could claim from Government and they would get back,thus a tough 2 months making ends meet 

    I have seen other members of staff say they have covid and laptops are sent t their house so they can work from home  or if the family visiting lap top sent or allowed to take them so they work from home,  thus this favoritism I think but dismiss by management (CAN I ASK HR RE THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD  ) 

    I come t know a person who joined 6 months before me and left recently was on £6kmor then I am 

    I am on 24 plus £250. month bonus if I hit targets 


    What can I do 

    Await your response 
    There is no default legal right to a pay rise ever, unless your pay were to fall below the national minimum wage.

    Equally, what somebody else is or was paid is in most circumstances irrelevant.

    You can ask HR what you like but there is no guarantee it won't get back to your FD (who I assume is your immediate boss). HR work for the company to protect its interests. The are not in any way a neutral arbiter between employees and their management.

    4 disciplinaries in as many years is not good! To say that they "expire" is largely meaningless, certainly for pay and promotion purposes. People remember and with a few exceptions (unlawful discrimination such as race, gender etc) the company can use whatever factors they like in deciding who to promote or award a pay rise.

    I can't remember the precise details about the covid regulations but was SSP ever paid to people self isolating rather than being ill? Maybe somebody can remember what entitlements there were under these circumstances? If you were entitled to something then yes, it should have been paid. I would make very sure of the facts before making a fuss about it and even then consider how wise that would be in the current situation.  
    For the  4 disciplinaries, I think my work was just around furlough time when you were not given time to clean up the accounts thus they had look in to even though the staff was not in the office 

    3,4 one was doing my job chasing debt for charity when it moved to address it had asked to have invoices sent to another address which was not on my system and this was because the charity wrote to the director of my company my stance you got the work done thus you should pay within set terms 

    4 one was not responding to emails re an insurance job which was taken on by our body shop without checking if had account for the company thus car left the site we getting paid only after chasing was the payment received 
     The other was not treating other members of staff with respect, I asked where here in the accounts office or other sites advised other sites asked for the name of the person when advised I told the person present what was sent to via email and showed it to both 
    Was told by the person would run me over with the bus if he saw out about 
    so I think all four  disciplinaries just to make look bad 

    then the question of underperforming why taken fours to find this out
    My point was not so much about the rights and wrongs of the disciplinary matters. It was more the fact that somebody in authority over you felt that there were four separate issues serious enough to progress to a formal disciplinary hearing.

    That is always going to be difficult to put behind you and be totally forgotten. The fact that you have not been awarded pay rises, when colleagues apparently have, suggests that the firm isn't particularly keen to retain your services.

    To answer your actual question "What can I do".....

    To be brutally honest, either keep your head down and do your level best to make a good impression from here on or look for another job.
  • Marcon
    Marcon Posts: 9,887
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    aayush said:


    Now in my last 2 meetings told I am underperforming. why is taken them 4 years to find this out or is this another way of saying no rise till next year ( CAN I ASK HR THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD )

    I was on 2 furloughs in the pandemic when around 6 to eight people were working from home thus am sure they got a pay rise or bonus 
    I asked d if could work from home and told no laptop to go round 

    Just before furlough, my son got covid symptoms thus I and wife had to sell isolate because the results to a long to come back I had my ssp taken back by the company even though I advised them they could claim from Government and they would get back,thus a tough 2 months making ends meet 

    I have seen other members of staff say they have covid and laptops are sent t their house so they can work from home  or if the family visiting lap top sent or allowed to take them so they work from home,  thus this favoritism I think but dismiss by management (CAN I ASK HR RE THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD  ) 

    I come t know a person who joined 6 months before me and left recently was on £6kmor then I am 

    I am on 24 plus £250. month bonus if I hit targets 


    What can I do 

    Await your response 
    Employees aren't machines, so their performance is likely to vary from time to time. Maybe your performance was satisfactory at various points, but is currently not of the standard your employer expects. 

    You are focussing far too much on what is happening to other people, whereas you need to look at your own position and your own performance. Everything in your post suggests that your employer isn't exactly delighted with your performance - four disciplinaries in four years doesn't sound encouraging - so looking for another job might be in your best interests.
    Googling on your question might have been both quicker and easier, if you're only after simple facts rather than opinions!  
  • aayush
    aayush Posts: 1,276
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    aayush said:
    aayush said:
    Hi 
    I hope all are safe and well 

    I have e been with my present company for over 4 years now but have not seen any change in pay 
    I have had 4 disciplinary   ( please note this is the only job where this has happened to me 2 are  old and 1 is about to expire not sure what happened to the last one )

    Each time I asked why there was no pay rise told the company not healthy 

    Now in my last 2 meetings told I am underperforming. why is taken them 4 years to find this out or is this another way of saying no rise till next year ( CAN I ASK HR THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD )

    I was on 2 furloughs in the pandemic when around 6 to eight people were working from home thus am sure they got a pay rise or bonus 
    I asked d if could work from home and told no laptop to go round 

    Just before furlough, my son got covid symptoms thus I and wife had to sell isolate because the results to a long to come back I had my ssp taken back by the company even though I advised them they could claim from Government and they would get back,thus a tough 2 months making ends meet 

    I have seen other members of staff say they have covid and laptops are sent t their house so they can work from home  or if the family visiting lap top sent or allowed to take them so they work from home,  thus this favoritism I think but dismiss by management (CAN I ASK HR RE THIS BUT NOT IT WISH COME BACK TO MY FD  ) 

    I come t know a person who joined 6 months before me and left recently was on £6kmor then I am 

    I am on 24 plus £250. month bonus if I hit targets 


    What can I do 

    Await your response 
    There is no default legal right to a pay rise ever, unless your pay were to fall below the national minimum wage.

    Equally, what somebody else is or was paid is in most circumstances irrelevant.

    You can ask HR what you like but there is no guarantee it won't get back to your FD (who I assume is your immediate boss). HR work for the company to protect its interests. The are not in any way a neutral arbiter between employees and their management.

    4 disciplinaries in as many years is not good! To say that they "expire" is largely meaningless, certainly for pay and promotion purposes. People remember and with a few exceptions (unlawful discrimination such as race, gender etc) the company can use whatever factors they like in deciding who to promote or award a pay rise.

    I can't remember the precise details about the covid regulations but was SSP ever paid to people self isolating rather than being ill? Maybe somebody can remember what entitlements there were under these circumstances? If you were entitled to something then yes, it should have been paid. I would make very sure of the facts before making a fuss about it and even then consider how wise that would be in the current situation.  
    For the  4 disciplinaries, I think my work was just around furlough time when you were not given time to clean up the accounts thus they had look in to even though the staff was not in the office 

    3,4 one was doing my job chasing debt for charity when it moved to address it had asked to have invoices sent to another address which was not on my system and this was because the charity wrote to the director of my company my stance you got the work done thus you should pay within set terms 

    4 one was not responding to emails re an insurance job which was taken on by our body shop without checking if had account for the company thus car left the site we getting paid only after chasing was the payment received 
     The other was not treating other members of staff with respect, I asked where here in the accounts office or other sites advised other sites asked for the name of the person when advised I told the person present what was sent to via email and showed it to both 
    Was told by the person would run me over with the bus if he saw out about 
    so I think all four  disciplinaries just to make look bad 

    then the question of underperforming why taken fours to find this out
    My point was not so much about the rights and wrongs of the disciplinary matters. It was more the fact that somebody in authority over you felt that there were four separate issues serious enough to progress to a formal disciplinary hearing.

    That is always going to be difficult to put behind you and be totally forgotten. The fact that you have not been awarded pay rises, when colleagues apparently have, suggests that the firm isn't particularly keen to retain your services.

    To answer your actual question "What can I do".....

    To be brutally honest, either keep your head down and do your level best to make a good impression from here on or look for another job.
    ok what can i do speak to hr or ACAS 
  • elsien
    elsien Posts: 32,223
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    What do you plan to speak to them about?
    It’s not unlawful not to give a pay rise every year, and it’s not unlawful for staff to be paid different rates for the same job unless there’s a concern around discrimination due to protected characteristics.

     I wouldn’t be going anywhere near HR in the circumstances, (and I’m not sure what are ACAS can do given that there isn’t an ongoing dispute). I’m unclear what Diystarter thinks that HR are going to do without you giving any names and with  you not wanting it to get back to your manager.
    I think if it was me I might well be looking at other jobs now.
    But also is there not some sort of supervision and appraisal process? Because my question would be how specifically have they identified that you are underperforming, and what sort of plan/support is your manager putting in place to help you to meet your targets in the future?
     In my organisation pay can be tied to performance so everyone needs to be really clear throughout the year as to whether they are hitting the objectives or not.
    If they can’t really tell you how or why you’re underperforming and aren’t going to support you to get back up to speed they’re affectively telling you they don’t want you there. In which case cutting your losses is probably the best way to go.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
  • aayush
    aayush Posts: 1,276
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    why taken 4 years to bring this up and not advised earlier is another question 
    you say not to go HR then who to go to as management eg FD has not got balls to tell other staff re the issues but wishes to remain within the 4 walls as wants to look good with directors as they not in the same building

    IF I go without a fight seems they have won when other can get away with not doing the duties for 3 months  
  • elsien
    elsien Posts: 32,223
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    edited 20 November 2022 at 2:52PM
    I would take it away from winning or losing because that reframes it as a contest rather than doing what is best for you. Forget about what others are or aren’t doing, you can’t make anyone in the organisation do anything about that. Focus on yourself.
    The only way HR can do anything is to go back to your manager and say why isn’t aayush getting a pay rise.  To which the answer will be possibly “because he’s had four disciplinaries and is underperforming. “
    You could potentially make a grievance but to the outside observer you are not doing that from a position of strength.

    I suppose my question to you would be you don’t seem to have a lot of respect for your boss and you’ve had problems in this workplace that you haven’t had in others. So what’s the benefit to you in staying?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
  • aayush said:
    why taken 4 years to bring this up and not advised earlier is another question 
    you say not to go HR then who to go to as management eg FD has not got balls to tell other staff re the issues but wishes to remain within the 4 walls as wants to look good with directors as they not in the same building

    IF I go without a fight seems they have won when other can get away with not doing the duties for 3 months  
    When were your disciplinaries? The can bring anything up before you've done something wrong. 
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