More smart meter woes

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Hi, I have a SMETS1 meter that was installed by Octopus. I am still with Octopus but am having issues with the meter.

It appears that the issue started when Octopus programmed my meter with an export MPAN. Up until then I had been on Octopus Go and my bills had used the HH readings from the smart meter (it seems, but the single meter reading also agreed).

Based on what I have read on this and the Green board, and some guided button pressing on my meter, it looks like the export was programmed into the RO2 register. With an E7 tariff, this means that my day rate meter readings are squiffy (to say the least) and Octopus hasn't been charging me for day usage.

From what I had been learning, I was starting to suspect there was something wrong and started trying to find out. I downloaded my HH readings from my Octopus account on the webpage and did some number crunching and comparison to my bills. I could make everything match up until the date my export MPAN kicked in - which was June last year. I calculated that I then had a steadily increasing disparity until 1st October this year when it was about £180 that I owed. (So far I have failed to successfully update my spreadsheet with the latest rates from October, so that's when all my calcs end). This is low because with PV and E7, we don't have a huge amount of day time import. 

We were also visited by a meter reader at the beginning of this month, who seems to have just given any old numbers to Octopus, despite telling my husband that he couldn't find a day reading from the meter. At least his odd readings caused the automatic billing to put a stop on our account. But then it all went a bit crazy and I was charged over £500 for back dated bills. This appears to be because estimated readings have been used to calculate our day usage and probably based on our usage from before the issues - ie ignoring the effects of the PV. 

I have spoken with Octopus and been assured that it has been referred to a smart meter specialist - I've sent videos of the button pressing mentioned above.

My question is, what is the hierarchy between meter readings and HH data with regards to calculating my bills? Can I insist that my HH consumption data is used instead of an estimate?

Thanks in advance...
4.3kW PV, 3.6kW inverter. Octopus Tracker. Zoe. Ripple x 2. Cheshire
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  • Petriix
    Petriix Posts: 2,076 Forumite
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    It seems incredibly unlikely that the R02 register would measure export. There should be a separate export register which might require different button pressing to see. It's possible that they've set R02 for the day rate and R01 for the night.

    It's possible that your issues have been caused by giving them your total reading as your day reading as some smart meters default to showing this. While you were on Go it wouldn't have mattered but on E7 the actual registers are important.

    If we're able to see the video you mention, or just photos if the various screens on your meter then we might be able to help further. Otherwise it's just speculation.
  • [Deleted User]
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    My question is, what is the hierarchy between meter readings and HH data with regards to calculating my bills? Can I insist that my HH consumption data is used instead of an estimate?

    Octopus only uses HH data for its beta time-of-use tariffs.

    When a smart meter is set up for export payments it is allocated a separate MPAN. As far as I know, export is recorded on a dedicated register. Import data is stored for 13 months but export only has 3 month’s worth of data storage. 

    There is a report on other forum that that an e7 tariff had been set up using the export MPAN so I assume that is also possible in reverse.

    Once resolved, Octopus should be able to retrieve the data and bill correctly. I would copy any emails you send to smart@octopus.energy

  • 70sbudgie
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    I agree is seems unlikely that the R02 register would be used for export, which is why I ended up videoing the meter reading. 

    I'm not convinced I can take my personal data off the video, so you lovely lot will have to make do with my description. 

    These are the instructions we followed:


    After pressing 6 four times, the following appeared in this order:
    IMP R01
    0009645.3
    015-980P
    EXP R01
    0004338.0
    005-500P
    CREDIT
    USING NOW
    0000370.9
    COST NOW
    00065.06

    We then went looking for our export reading with the following:

    After pressing 9 twice the following appeared:
    EXP KWH
    0004472.8
    IMP KVARH
    0000001.5
    EXP KVARH
    etc (I can edit to post the rest of this if you think it might be relevant).

    I had noticed that pressing 9 once showed
    IMP KWH
    So got the reading from that which was
    0015607.6
    And then it went through the sequence immediately above.

    You may notice that EXP R01 and EXP KWH give different readings.

    Any thoughts or ideas will be gratefully received.
    4.3kW PV, 3.6kW inverter. Octopus Tracker. Zoe. Ripple x 2. Cheshire
  • Petriix
    Petriix Posts: 2,076 Forumite
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    IMP KWH will be the total of all import registers and EXP KWH all export registers. IMP R01 is probably your off peak (but maybe your peak) import and will include your previous imports on Go - all my Go Faster import is recorded under R01.

    You have not shown your IMP R02 which will show your peak imports (or maybe off-peak). EXP R01 is potentially where all your exports under Go were stored and EXP R02 may well be where your current exports are being recorded, assuming that they are definitely using R01 for off-peak. 
  • 70sbudgie
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    Petriix said:

    You have not shown your IMP R02 which will show your peak imports (or maybe off-peak). 
    That's the point I'm trying to make - I can't find IMP R02 - EXP R01 is where I expected to find it, when following the meter reading guide. Seeing as this is what the meter reader said, it isn't just me. 
    4.3kW PV, 3.6kW inverter. Octopus Tracker. Zoe. Ripple x 2. Cheshire
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 13,822 Forumite
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    70sbudgie said:
    Petriix said:

    You have not shown your IMP R02 which will show your peak imports (or maybe off-peak). 
    That's the point I'm trying to make - I can't find IMP R02 - EXP R01 is where I expected to find it, when following the meter reading guide. Seeing as this is what the meter reader said, it isn't just me. 
    It sounds as though you've got a Secure Liberty smart meter.
    I think, from previous reports on this forum, that particular meter only displays the active registers. If your current Octopus tariff isn't using R02, it won't show you an IMP R02 reading. You can infer that it exists due to the difference between IMP KWH and IMP R01.
    This is just a suggestion, and I could be wrong.
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Go elec & Tracker gas / Shell BB / Lyca mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 30MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Taking a break, hope to be back eventually.
    Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs.
  • Petriix
    Petriix Posts: 2,076 Forumite
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    Octopus are generally pretty good at resolving this kind of thing, especially when there's accurate data to look at. However, it can be hit and miss getting the query to the right team. Twitter direct message is surprisingly effective, otherwise emailing 'smart@' is way better than 'hello@'.

    There may be a fair bit of unravelling to do if they really have misconfigured the meter that badly. If you can confirm the model of the meter then we can figure out if you're missing something maybe hidden in the menus. It's possible that the registers default to showing the currently active ones only, depending on the time of day that you look.
  • 70sbudgie
    70sbudgie Posts: 749 Forumite
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    edited 24 November 2022 at 12:11AM
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    Yes, it is a Secure Liberty 100 (according to my account details). I did wonder if there are any other menu locations I could look at. I've not had a chance to chase Octopus, but plan to tomorrow. Including emailing the "smart@" email address you suggested above.

    What does the "cost now" item include? Is that the unit rate only? Because the value on my reading doesn't match the rate on my bill, even if I add on 5% tax. 

    Also, could I calculate a day meter reading if I have the total and the night readings? Could I use that to show the estimated readings (and / or the reading the meter reader gave) are too high?

    Edit to add: do you know of any reason why EXP R01 and EXP KWH are different. Shouldn't they be the same if there's only one export? Or would the total pick up export from before my SEG kicked in?
    4.3kW PV, 3.6kW inverter. Octopus Tracker. Zoe. Ripple x 2. Cheshire
  • Petriix
    Petriix Posts: 2,076 Forumite
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    edited 24 November 2022 at 12:04PM
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    I assume you're pressing button 6 multiple times to see all the different registers - a 5th press should show R02 if it's active - so any not shown must be inactive. It seems crazy that you can't easily read the inactive registers because, if they've ever been used, they will always be relevant. 

    The EXP KWH from button 9 is the total of all export registers. Presumably all exports prior to your switch to E7 were under EXP R01 [and any new exports are under EXP R02].
  • 70sbudgie
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    I think I went straight onto Octopus Go when my meter was installed and from that to the current set up. So I don't think I've ever had an active R02 if it isn't active now. 

    Octopus moved me off Go, straight onto E7, I thought, when they set up my export. Which is why I'm a little confused about 2 different export readings. 

    I don't think I have an EXP R02, but haven't had a chance to go and look since it was suggested. 

    It might be a daft question, but does the register have to be active (and therefore visible) to collect data? Could IMP R02 be hiding somewhere with a value?
    4.3kW PV, 3.6kW inverter. Octopus Tracker. Zoe. Ripple x 2. Cheshire
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